UK sinking under an ocean of debts?

[stewart]

toyota bombproof? my son has 2 taxis to fix both approaching 100,000mls, not a lot for a taxi. these are avensis models with bmw diesel engines. one had a snapped timing chain about 12,000mls ago and it is now back in with no oil pressure. the other also has a snapped timing chain. both serviced to spec on the dot.

The problem is the BMW engine, they would have been fine with a Toyota engine in them, mine has just clicked over 700,000k

 

[ollie989898]

Model S was 83k for the long range and 110k for the plaid.
https://ev-database.uk/search/?q=BMW#title-filter:value=BMW|sortath~type~order=.rank~number~desc|range-slider-rangerev~next=0~600|range-slider-towweightrev~next=0~2500|range-slider-accelerationrev~next=2~23|range-slider-fastchargerev~next=0~1100|range-slider-leaserev~next=150~2500|range-slider-topspeedrev~next=60~260|paging:currentPage=0|paging:number=9
Saying the model s is like that BMW is only accurate in styling and interior spec. If you go for the more expensive spec with the compatible drive train which starts at 65-72k in the BMW,

https://ev-database.uk/search/?q=BMW#title-filter:value=Tesla|sortath~type~order=.rank~number~desc|range-slider-rangerev~next=0~600|range-slider-towweightrev~next=0~2500|range-slider-accelerationrev~next=2~23|range-slider-fastchargerev~next=0~1100|range-slider-leaserev~next=150~2500|range-slider-topspeedrev~next=60~260|paging:currentPage=0|paging:number=9
Saying the model s is like that BMW is only accurate in styling and interior spec. If you go for the more expensive spec with the compatible drive train which starts at 65-72k in the BMW,

It’s always hard to judge specs and prices accurately.
So here are both car ranges done on the same website.

Clearly, the model S and the BMW i4 are not the same car and probably are chasing a different part of the market.

 

[ollie989898]

Why not carry on making combustion engines and use hydrogen as the fuel?

It is very easy to do this, an internal combustion engine will run on hydrogen no sweat. Just need pretty hefty fuel injectors that can shift a lot of volume.

Trouble is, where is the hydrogen production and refuelling infrastructure?

 

[ollie989898]

The problem is the BMW engine, they would have been fine with a Toyota engine in them, mine has just clicked over 700,000k

I've heard from various sources just how discerning Toyota are when it comes to just their parts supply chain. Toyota are very very specific about what quality steel and aluminium they will buy and use. I would imagine that they are similarly selective when buying parts.

An engine having its timing chain go before 100,000 miles is pretty scary.

 

[steveR]

More debt than assets in the world. Debt secured against debt. Greensill only the tip of the iceberg. Planning my retiral in Portugal where the weather is nice and the climate in the north ideal for subsistence farming.

Nice idea...

Locals have been "subsisting" for hundreds of years...

 

[br jones]

China controls the lions share of the world's rare earth materials, not so much the lithium but the things like neodymium that are used to make the magnets in electric motors, tantalum which gives lithium ion batteries their resistance to wearing out etc etc etc.

Rare earths occur all over the world so I am unsure how China have managed to corner the marketplace, probable because they are willing to overlook the environmental costs of producing them.

dont worry we are now going to mine the seabed for more of the rare minerals,ffs could make it up

 

[Dave645]

Where Are They Getting Their Lithium From?​

Via: Wikimedia
Until the great idea comes to finalization, Tesla is sourcing its lithium from China's Ganfeng Lithium Co Ltd. Ganfeng is the world's top lithium company when it comes to market capitalization. Starting from 2022, the company will provide lithium batteries to Tesla for three years. We assume if the plan goes well, then the partnership will continue.
-----------

Among others from 2022, and they have plans to start their own mining operation just 200 miles from their Nevada battery production factory.

Among others from 2022, and they have plans to start their own mining operation just 200 miles from their Nevada battery production factory.
https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/who-are-teslas-lithium-suppliers-2019-03-26.


https://electrek.co/2020/09/23/tesla-mining-business-buys-lithium-claim-acres-nevada/
So sure China and a lot of others and they are securing the supply themselves, what are the other car makers doing?


https://www.fool.com/investing/2020/09/28/piedmont-lithium-signs-five-year-supply-deal-with/
Fail to plan, is a plan to fail.
Tesla has got a plan, new 5 year deals and plans to mine their own, so nonot relying on just China.

.while the Tesla China site is I am sure using china’s lithium which makes perfect sense. That’s only one of 4 factories Tesla will have up and running this year.
At no point are Tesla planning of totaly relying on lithium from China.

If Tesla falls out with China? While anything is possible a us trade embargo etc, I doubt it would just effect Tesla, as you said a lot of the worlds lithium batteries come from China. . . It would be very very bad for all the other car companies and it would put limits on Tesla battery cell production until they sourced new lithium supplies if possible, but will China put billions in income at risk, after Tesla’s new factories come online I expect the China factory will just supply China and the surrounding region, so it’s a closed shop and a circular economy, money Tesla make goes back into the China economy, via materials purchased, parts, labour and taxes, it’s win win for China, if they ruin that more fool China.

 

[Dave645]

It is very easy to do this, an internal combustion engine will run on hydrogen no sweat. Just need pretty hefty fuel injectors that can shift a lot of volume.

Trouble is, where is the hydrogen production and refuelling infrastructure?

And what does the water vapour do to the engine, When you burn it ?
Water inside the combustion chamber, of an engine is not ideal.

 

[stewart]

I've heard from various sources just how discerning Toyota are when it comes to just their parts supply chain. Toyota are very very specific about what quality steel and aluminium they will buy and use. I would imagine that they are similarly selective when buying parts.

An engine having its timing chain go before 100,000 miles is pretty scary.

Yes I would be concerned about a timing chain going before 100k which is why I would insist on a Toyota engine in a Toyota, I usually only buy Toyota due to their reliability, recently bought an American Ford with a UK engine, every time I get in it I worry that something will break, so far it hasn't so maybe I should stop worrying about it?

 

[Highland Mule]

And what does the water vapour do to the engine, When you burn it ?
Water inside the combustion chamber, of an engine is not ideal.

Doesn’t seem to be too much trouble in my petrol and diesel cars.

 

[Dave645]

Doesn’t seem to be too much trouble in my petrol and diesel cars.

If it was that simple we would be doing it in a big way now, the water vapour in air is not at the same scale as what’s added when you burn hydrogen as it’s trapped in the combustion chamber under high pressure when it’s created so it’s . Trying to get past the piston rings and down the valve stems, then it travels and condenses in the exhaust system, while I am sure it’s possible to do, I have seen one, that’s not to say they can run as long as a petrol or Diesel engine or have the same service scheduled. That and as the other person said where do you fill up?
Throw in the enegy to make hydrogen in the first place is greater than just running a car directly from electric energy.
I can see hydrogen having a role but not in cars.
And not by direct burning it in an engine, hydrogen fuel cells running an on board generator, to power an electric drive train on large equipment seems more likely. So hybrids where they have a 4 hours worth of battery storage but also a fuel cell and hydrogen tank, it give the machine the ability to work when either system is empty, but not both.

 

[TheTallGuy]

If it was that simple we would be doing it in a big way now, the water vapour in air is not at the same scale as what’s added when you burn hydrogen as it’s trapped in the combustion chamber under high pressure when it’s created so it’s . Trying to get past the piston rings and down the valve stems, then it travels and condenses in the exhaust system, while I am sure it’s possible to do, I have seen one, that’s not to say they can run as long as a petrol or Diesel engine or have the same service scheduled. That and as the other person said where do you fill up?
Throw in the enegy to make hydrogen in the first place is greater than just running a car directly from electric energy.
I can see hydrogen having a role but not in cars.
And not by direct burning it in an engine, hydrogen fuel cells running an on board generator, to power an electric drive train on large equipment seems more likely. So hybrids where they have a 4 hours worth of battery storage but also a fuel cell and hydrogen tank, it give the machine the ability to work when either system is empty, but not both.

Both petrol and diesel engines produce significant quantities water vapour from burning fuel. There are many reasons for not having switched to hydrogen for internal combustion engines, firstly is that the efficency isn't as good compared to fuel cell technologies - next, hydrogen engines aren't particularly suited to transient loads - they're more suited to constant loads. Other key reasons revolve around production, storage and distribution which is why even fuel cells haven't taken off in a big way.

 

[Highland Mule]

Both petrol and diesel engines produce significant quantities water vapour from burning fuel.

Thank you. That’s what I was alluding to above.

 

[oil barron]

Burning Hydrogen In a combustion engine is not zero emission either.

 

[ollie989898]

Burning Hydrogen In a combustion engine is not zero emission either.

Depends how you obtain the hydrogen.

Normal petrol and diesel engines ingest huge amounts of water vapour in the air and it does them no harm at all. Burning hydrogen would give the same result- heated up water vapour being passed out of the exhaust.

 

[oil barron]

Depends how you obtain the hydrogen.

Normal petrol and diesel engines ingest huge amounts of water vapour in the air and it does them no harm at all. Burning hydrogen would give the same result- heated up water vapour being passed out of the exhaust.

The hydrogen can be 100% clean. But using it in a combustion engine (not a fuel cell) will result in the same Nox emissions that you get from burning diesel.

 

[essexpete]

Does anyone wonder with the electric prices absolutly rocketing and only going one way will this fact have an impact on electric car sales
Nick…

Without the added demise of so much established generation capability and, according to some, the lack of infrastructure to carry the necessary electric. Evs only part of the suspect equation with the push towards electric heating. To draw a comparison with the changes with ELMS where the policies are pushed top down. The energy industry could be looking similar.