UK to join the CPTPP?

Muck Spreader

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Limousin
Lot of the commonwealth economy's changed alot in 60 years...
Probably not as much as the UK economy which is now mostly dependent on services, house prices and foreign investors. Even in the fifties UK was still supplying the Commonwealth with much of its manufactured goods.
 

le bon paysan

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Limousin, France
I know a current Treasury Counsel who isn't a Silk, and several Silks, but I was called in 2002 so that's not so surprising. No disrespect intended to either your chum in Silk or mine, all deserving I'm sure but... take a squint at what's needed to take Silk nowadays, and it's not as impressive as once was - the machinations of one T. Blair and his friends.

Taking Silk is often more for personal (self) esteem and bravado, show even, than anything else now and many don't take it because - somewhat counter-intuitively - it often sees income drop. Look at the heads of chambers and it may surprise you to see how many haven't taken it.

As for me, professionally you couldn't have found anyone less likely to give offence, regardless of the client, and I dealt with some revolting people. Even now, over a decade away, if asked politely I'll happily respond in such a manner and hand-hold through things as best I can. But I steer clear of fields that I'm ignorant of and run a mile from family disputes, they have to be the most soul-destroying thing of all.

That written, we aren't in curia and I feel no obligation not to respond in kind to others, however that is.


That's my thinking pretty much. We all have some things that are particularly important to us nationally, so it doesn't spoil the party if some things are held back. On the contrary, because national interests are respected and understood there is far less chance of disagreement, and so it makes the whole thing better, much, much better. :)
The one chap has long passed, he was 70 when I was 30 ish and the silk as you put it was 25 years older than me. So long retired.
I asked you a perfectly polite question the other day and you couldn't/ wouldn't answer it.
 

Muck Spreader

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Limousin
My point in re China isn't about trade with it but, rather, a counter to it.

As for cars the game changer will be autonomous vehicles; once approved they'll change everything, forever.
Have you seen any proposals on where and how the liabilities of autonomous vehicle ownership will reside?
 

czechmate

Member
Mixed Farmer
Yep electric will be big, but I stick by my statement. Think about, once there are autonomous cars, if you can afford one, you have a 24/7 money earner and loads of other people have no need for one at all. Your car probably spends >95% of its time parked up at the moment. Once autonomy comes in, that 95% can be spent ferrying people around, all booked online and automatically done; convenient for them and lucrative for you. I don't think many have really thought about this, it will see car ownership fall greatly, maybe down to <20% of current levels.



Can't see what happening?


Sounds like Nivarna...
For a pandemic virus
 
Yep electric will be big, but I stick by my statement. Think about, once there are autonomous cars, if you can afford one, you have a 24/7 money earner and loads of other people have no need for one at all. Your car probably spends >95% of its time parked up at the moment. Once autonomy comes in, that 95% can be spent ferrying people around, all booked online and automatically done; convenient for them and lucrative for you. I don't think many have really thought about this, it will see car ownership fall greatly, maybe down to <20% of current levels.



Can't see what happening?
Free trading agreements/tarriff & subsidy removals , for that to happen you would have to remove supply management and quota.
Would the UK or the EU ever remove all subsidies and remove all tariffs including non tarriff barriers to allow free trade and a level playing field for all importers/expoeters???
And would all UK industries capitulate without protest???
 

Danllan

Member
Location
Sir Gar / Carms
Free trading agreements/tarriff & subsidy removals , for that to happen you would have to remove supply management and quota.
Would the UK or the EU ever remove all subsidies and remove all tariffs including non tarriff barriers to allow free trade and a level playing field for all importers/expoeters???
And would all UK industries capitulate without protest???
There are ways and means, read the accession text that Canada etc. signed up to and the 'core' of the joint statements. There is plenty of room for protecting anything that members feel essential to them. That written, some stuff will be up for grabs - that's the bvgger about being in government, policy has to be what's best for most and only very rarely can be what's best for all...
 
Yep electric will be big, but I stick by my statement. Think about, once there are autonomous cars, if you can afford one, you have a 24/7 money earner and loads of other people have no need for one at all. Your car probably spends >95% of its time parked up at the moment. Once autonomy comes in, that 95% can be spent ferrying people around, all booked online and automatically done; convenient for them and lucrative for you. I don't think many have really thought about this, it will see car ownership fall greatly, maybe down to <20% of current levels.



Can't see what happening?
But at a peak time Saturday night when every one wants to go out you may have to wait
 
There are ways and means, read the accession text that Canada etc. signed up to and the 'core' of the joint statements. There is plenty of room for protecting anything that members feel essential to them. That written, some stuff will be up for grabs - that's the bvgger about being in government, policy has to be what's best for most and only very rarely can be what's best for all...
I would think it would be political suicide for the minority Liberal party and Trudeau. With the amount of money farmers and banks have tied up in quota the implications of unrestricted free trade would end most of them.
If you think free trade with unrestricted market access it the way to go, then let the UK lead by example.
 

Pasty

Member
Location
Devon
The one chap has long passed, he was 70 when I was 30 ish and the silk as you put it was 25 years older than me. So long retired.
I asked you a perfectly polite question the other day and you couldn't/ wouldn't answer it.
How do you enforce the £100 fine when they barf over the seats?
 

stewart

Member
Horticulture
Location
Bay of Plenty NZ
I would think it would be political suicide for the minority Liberal party and Trudeau. With the amount of money farmers and banks have tied up in quota the implications of unrestricted free trade would end most of them.
If you think free trade with unrestricted market access it the way to go, then let the UK lead by example.
Some sectors in the UK would be fine with free trade, the livestock sector of agriculture would not have a sh!t show of competing.
 

stewart

Member
Horticulture
Location
Bay of Plenty NZ
Free trading agreements/tarriff & subsidy removals , for that to happen you would have to remove supply management and quota.
Would the UK or the EU ever remove all subsidies and remove all tariffs including non tarriff barriers to allow free trade and a level playing field for all importers/expoeters???
And would all UK industries capitulate without protest???
CPTTP is not all free trade, there are provisions in place to protect the Canadian dairy industry, I broadly agree with them.
 

stewart

Member
Horticulture
Location
Bay of Plenty NZ
As I understood it, China were not signatories or members of it as yet? I didn't realise quite how many countries were potential members or signatories, certainly a big carrot worth pursuing.

I know there was some controversy regarding the deal and how it dealt with the automotive industries. This is a moot point because the car industry globally will be borked right off the map because of the changes to consumer habits regarding electric vehicles and also the rise of home working. It will be bedlam no matter what trade deals or protections are put in place.
Why would the car industry be borked (whatever that means) due to changes in consumer habits regarding electric vehicles? Someone has to manufacture them and I would assume that Toyota, Ford, Kia et.al. would just change manufacture to meet consumer demand, electric is only a passing phase, Hydrogen is the way to go.
 
Why would the car industry be borked (whatever that means) due to changes in consumer habits regarding electric vehicles? Someone has to manufacture them and I would assume that Toyota, Ford, Kia et.al. would just change manufacture to meet consumer demand, electric is only a passing phase, Hydrogen is the way to go.

You need to think about the state of the car industry and engage your brain a bit.

Right now you have a situation where car companies will basically need to scrap all their tooling and technology that they have invested billions into, because the next generation of cars won't use any of it. Electric vehicles use off the shelf electric motors and batteries. This is established technology. They have no gearbox, no engine, no fuel tank, no valvetrain, no engine block, no exhaust, no clutch. Virtually all car makers have invested billions of dollars in the machinery, skills and tooling to make these things. The question is ok, at what point do we switch over then? This year? Next year? 10 years time?

It will be Armageddon for some of them and names are already largely disappearing from the European marketplace. Mitsubishi are abandoning it, some of the American makers have said the same. The EU has insisted on tight emission controls for decades and many companies have sunk billions into this. Now companies are faced with having to produce a new product which makes use of none of this. Even if their workforces are reskilled into making electric motors, these are so simple compared to an engine that it's a joke.

About the only thing car makers will retain is the machinery needed to weld car bodies together and paint them. After that, it's all new. This shift in the fundamental design of cars will render 90% of their manufacturing capacity redundant.

Hydrogen? From where, exactly? You think car makers will be changing to fuel cells or even back to engines burning hydrogen in the face of electric vehicles? Why in the fudge would I, as a car user/owner do that? Electric cars already exist with a 300 mile range, charge in reasonable periods of time and I can charge it a home for fudge all on off peak electricity. Why in the hell would I opt for a vehicle fuelled on hydrogen? What advantage does it give me? An electric car has virtually no moving parts, no belts, no gearbox, no oil. You don't even use the brakes that often. There is nothing to go wrong or wear out besides the batteries which are apparently good for 100,000 miles easily according to many users anyway.
 

arcobob

Member
Location
Norfolk
You need to think about the state of the car industry and engage your brain a bit.

Right now you have a situation where car companies will basically need to scrap all their tooling and technology that they have invested billions into, because the next generation of cars won't use any of it. Electric vehicles use off the shelf electric motors and batteries. This is established technology. They have no gearbox, no engine, no fuel tank, no valvetrain, no engine block, no exhaust, no clutch. Virtually all car makers have invested billions of dollars in the machinery, skills and tooling to make these things. The question is ok, at what point do we switch over then? This year? Next year? 10 years time?

It will be Armageddon for some of them and names are already largely disappearing from the European marketplace. Mitsubishi are abandoning it, some of the American makers have said the same. The EU has insisted on tight emission controls for decades and many companies have sunk billions into this. Now companies are faced with having to produce a new product which makes use of none of this. Even if their workforces are reskilled into making electric motors, these are so simple compared to an engine that it's a joke.

About the only thing car makers will retain is the machinery needed to weld car bodies together and paint them. After that, it's all new. This shift in the fundamental design of cars will render 90% of their manufacturing capacity redundant.

Hydrogen? From where, exactly? You think car makers will be changing to fuel cells or even back to engines burning hydrogen in the face of electric vehicles? Why in the fudge would I, as a car user/owner do that? Electric cars already exist with a 300 mile range, charge in reasonable periods of time and I can charge it a home for fudge all on off peak electricity. Why in the hell would I opt for a vehicle fuelled on hydrogen? What advantage does it give me? An electric car has virtually no moving parts, no belts, no gearbox, no oil. You don't even use the brakes that often. There is nothing to go wrong or wear out besides the batteries which are apparently good for 100,000 miles easily according to many users anyway.
Have you considered battery making mineral shortage ie. lithium, the cost of recycling and disposal of batteries, the increased demand for electricity which will no longer represent off peak. In fact, On the latter point night time demand could become peak demand then see what happens to tariffs. With more people working from home demand for cars will remain depressed and the demand for domestic electricity supply will increase.
Why your dismissal of hydrogen? It is one of the most common elements on earth, albeit with a bad reputation for being dangerous in the wrong hands, notably airship manufacturers 100 years ago.
 

SFI - What % were you taking out of production?

  • 0 %

    Votes: 75 43.6%
  • Up to 25%

    Votes: 61 35.5%
  • 25-50%

    Votes: 27 15.7%
  • 50-75%

    Votes: 3 1.7%
  • 75-100%

    Votes: 3 1.7%
  • 100% I’ve had enough of farming!

    Votes: 3 1.7%

Red Tractor drops launch of green farming scheme amid anger from farmers

  • 1,284
  • 1
As reported in Independent


quote: “Red Tractor has confirmed it is dropping plans to launch its green farming assurance standard in April“

read the TFF thread here: https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/gfc-was-to-go-ahead-now-not-going-ahead.405234/
Top