Unbeliveable Case/ Trimble issue.

[Dalers]

Just bought a Case CVX and had a Case XCN1050 and Nav 900 ( new type trimble) turned up with out the better accuracy signal Case UK guy sent me a QR code that up graded it so all good then yesterday moved farms and no correction signal so crap for drilling texted CASE GPS guy no answer so rang him at 9 this morning no answer rang dealer who put me in touch with Trimble in Holland , nice helpful guy eventually asked are you near the sea as they don't work near the sea, WTF I'm in Cornwall for F**** sake .
Dutch Trimble Guy sent 2 new codes but no Joy but trying to sort but CASE have not replied to me or dealer.
I find the issue unbelievable , and obviously all ground by the road and markers hardly leaving a visible line.
Thrilled I paid the extra 000s for GPS.
Local dealer has been great but can't say the same fore Case uk

 

[Andrew]

You say wothout the right correction signal - which signal are you referring to?

Had got anything to do with the recent satellite outages?
@Pheasant Surprise I think knows quite a bit about it

 

[Dalers]

No correction signal so just GNSS, to be fair Case guy on phone and tried to sort it , but moved farms away from coast and it started working perfect so no idea, when I'm caught up will go for a drive and see if there is a pattern to it or maybe just a coincident and it had a bad day, but spoke to case guy and he said he hadn't changed anything his end.

 

[Robt]

What correction signal? Egnos, RTX, RTK Ntrip?

 

[Andrew]

Just bought a Case CVX and had a Case XCN1050 and Nav 900 ( new type trimble) turned up with out the better accuracy signal Case UK guy sent me a QR code that up graded it

No correction signal so just GNSS

Huh??

 

[Dalers]

It was running on GNSS that's a mix of loads of different satellites apparently but in the box that said correction age it said zero so it would not allow me to put in a a/b line as it said not accurate enough signal , the signal its meant to run on is RTX and this needs a signal from land bases dotted around the country to step up the accuracy of the satellites apparently. I was told the thing is programmed with boundaries' ie the sea and it appears they cut a corner or 2 off the map and some land is out side these boundaries so it seems to ignore the additional land signa that it needs to workl, this is how the Dutch guy explained it to me ish . Never had any thing like this with our JD kit.

 

[Robt]

#theyaretalkingbollox!
How do you think ships and planes navigate!

 

[Andrew]

Every autosteer signal will run on loads of different satellites, GNSS is Global Navigation Satellite System, and refers to all the different constellations, including GPS (American) Globas (Russian) and Galileo (Europe). Most systems aren’t restricted to one constellation, to increase reliability and availability.

RTX signals are recieved entirely from the satellite so the invisible lines you mention should have no effect whatsoever.

Have a read of this thread
https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/egnos-satellite-changed.245976/page-5#post-5567610

Also check that you have the RTX signal selected, the correct frequency and baud rate etc.

 

[Clive]

why would it not work by the sea ? every boat I've ever been in has GPS and my cars are just fine in Cornwall !

cant see any logic there ? think you need to speak to someone who actually knows what they are talking about !

 

[Badshot]

I get the boundaries thing, trimble screens, or my 750 is rubbish at putting them in. But the steering works outside the boundaries, can run on a line km away.
Possibly needs a setting changed to allow it to work outside boundaries.

 

[Dalers]

Only going on what the Trimble guys and the Case guy told me working great now I'm a bit (1 mile) further in land.
Sounds strange I know but that's how it is , they will sort it I'm sure.

 

[Dalers]

#theyaretalkingbollox!
How do you think ships and planes navigate!

I get that and it would work on the most basic gps but not good enough to drill on, like moving farms and dropping from SF1/ 2 to egnoss

 

[Spear]

My 750 lost all satellites last year and only a software upgrade fixed it. A few weeks ago I had 14 sats and signal was only just into yellow.
Had to turn off Aore 120 to fix.

 

[Pheasant Surprise]

It was running on GNSS that's a mix of loads of different satellites apparently but in the box that said correction age it said zero so it would not allow me to put in a a/b line as it said not accurate enough signal , the signal its meant to run on is RTX and this needs a signal from land bases dotted around the country to step up the accuracy of the satellites apparently. I was told the thing is programmed with boundaries' ie the sea and it appears they cut a corner or 2 off the map and some land is out side these boundaries so it seems to ignore the additional land signa that it needs to workl, this is how the Dutch guy explained it to me ish . Never had any thing like this with our JD kit.

Perhaps something got lost slightly in translation, although the Dutch and Scandis I find have better English than the natives sometimes. Or perhaps something failed in an epic attempt at oversimplification. Anyways....

So you basically need two ingredients to get an accurate position:

1. Raw Postion. A clear view of the sky to see all the birdies - as said there are GPS, GLONASS, Galileo and BeiDou birdies up there. It’s quite likely your receiver will only be using GPS and GLONASS to calculate its raw position. All these “constellations” of satellites are termed “GNSS” (as opposed to the original GPS, which was the only gig in town once upon a time).

2. Correction. This takes many forms and has many degrees of cost, accuracy and long/short term repeatability. EGNOS is at one end of the scale and RTK is at the other end of the scale both in price and performance. The delivery of the correction service/signal can be from space (EGNOS, RTX, OmniStar, SF1/2 etc) or via UHF radio (RTK) or via cellular/mobile (RTK and some others).

So in a nutshell unless you have both clear view to the sky and good correction service reception (this could also be a more narrow view of the sky directly south) then you may encounter issues in terms of reliability of service.

Now in terms of coverage you should have no trouble getting a raw view of global GNSS satellites, well anywhere on the globe.

Correction is a completely different matter and there are limitation to where you can get corrections - yep even those from space - as they have a “footprint” based on where the satellite beam can be accurately received. This is why there are different satellites that deliver RTX for example - a couple over North America, a couple over Europe / Asia and another for Ozland/Kiwi folk.

You may not be able for example to get an RTX corrections reliably in the middle of the Atlantic or Pacific Oceans. There are different correction services available to mariners and shipping companies for that £££££.

 

[Dalers]

Up date ,
Case GPS guy came and there is a straight East west line that run straight across SW Cornwall (and through my farm) that is out side the boundary of the area that the GPS recognises as Europe and North Africa so ignores correction signal, I have a line that if you cross you loose the correction signal but back up 3 meters it comes back on, CASE guy says Trimble need to include another Grid or 2 of what ever map they use for the area of Europe N Africa to include SW Cornwall as they seem to think my farm is in the sea so they need to send a update I assume.

 

[Pheasant Surprise]

Up date ,
Case GPS guy came and there is a straight East west line that run straight across SW Cornwall (and through my farm) that is out side the boundary of the area that the GPS recognises as Europe and North Africa so ignores correction signal, I have a line that if you cross you loose the correction signal but back up 3 meters it comes back on, CASE guy says Trimble need to include another Grid or 2 of what ever map they use for the area of Europe N Africa to include SW Cornwall as they seem to think my farm is in the sea so they need to send a update I assume.

Do you farm Land’s End? What happens if you happen to farm in the Isles of Scilly?? Just kidding.

The strangest GPS related thing I’ve heard in a while that.

So what they’re telling you basically is that your receiver thinks it’s in the Atlantic Ocean and therefore somehow not eligible to pickup the RTXEA satellite correction - even though that’s the designated beam for all of Europe, The Middle East and Africa.

Trimble boys @GPS_Support_2014 and @Slick care to comment?

 

[Dalers]

Yes it still gets the satellite but decides to ignore the correction signal once you pass a certain point,
Trible guys in Holland told me " Oh they don't work by the sea" really helpful, I told Case about this in Oct I think they thought I was talking crap so took till Jan to send someone down now they see I'm not talking rubbish wonder how long it will take to sort it, I need it soon for Spring drilling.
I'm at Falmouth so 40 miles or so from lands end the line runs from Dobman point to Hayle approx cutting bottom of Cornwall off.

 

[Pheasant Surprise]

told Case about this in Oct I think they thought I was talking crap so took till Jan to send someone down now they see I'm not talking rubbish

Did they try it / check operation with another RTX enabled receiver?

 

[Dalers]

Yes the guy had a device with him and tried all sorts of stuff with mine and checked with his he was going to drive down the A 30 towards lands end and see where he crossed the line and lost the correction signal, I whats App the head GPS Case guy this morning to see what the plan is.
Don't think he could believe his eyes as we drove down a field and we said we will loose signal now and we did I had been out and marked the line and they drove up and down and it would go on and off as the crossed the line that runs diagonally through the farm.

 

[Pheasant Surprise]

Yes the guy had a device with him and tried all sorts of stuff with mine and checked with his he was going to drive down the A 30 towards lands end and see where he crossed the line and lost the correction signal, I whats App the head GPS Case guy this morning to see what the plan is.
Don't think he could believe his eyes as we drove down a field and we said we will loose signal now and we did I had been out and marked the line and they drove up and down and it would go on and off as the crossed the line that runs diagonally through the farm.

Keep us posted on how it goes. Very weird indeed.

Thought had crossed my mind that your receiver, although set to pickup RTXEA (or perhaps the old RTXAE) correction beam may have somehow been set to another "region" or similar somewhere deep in the settings, hence causing a conflict.

The only other thing I can think of, is that Trimble have implemented some sort of 'geo-fencing' type of thing in their receiver firmware/code that stops the receivers from implementing the RTX correction outside of a given geographical boundary.

I've never heard of that, let alone seen Trimble write it down anywhere or publish it, but it must somehow exist and perhaps even their 2nd and 3rd level support techs are unaware of it, or perhaps the actual limits/boundaries.

Bizarre.