Upgrading to 3-phase power

DanniAgro

Member
Decent prospect of getting 3 phase installed here soon due to upcoming line upgrade. But I need to own up, despite having had it explained to me before, I don't fully understand the benefits of 3 phase, or the logistics involved in altering the existing fuse board etc. It's a dairy farm, so running vacuum pump, tank compressors etc. I mentioned it to our electrician couple of months ago and he put us off, saying it would be a huge amount of work for little gain? Supply coping currently, though house lights flicker when we start the parlour. Anyone willing to give me an idiots guide to 3 phase?!
It's probably true that on the average dairy farm in the old days you didn't need 3 phase, with most motors only being 1 hp, as my father didn't in his dairy, but now as you're finding out the modern dairy farm uses a lot more motors and the total current draw is getting quite near to the 100 amp capacity of a single phase supply, especially on start up.
As your sparky suggests, going to 3phase is quite a cost, and the main benefit for most farms is the ability to run big motors (my biggest is 35hp), so one of the questions for you is whether you want to do like vantage has done in his previous post and update part of your setup soon, like put a bigger bulk tank.
Of course you could avoid the huge cost of getting it installed by putting in a generator, although it seems like you could avoid most if they're upgrading the lines.
 

Northern territory

Member
Livestock Farmer
It's probably true that on the average dairy farm in the old days you didn't need 3 phase, with most motors only being 1 hp, as my father didn't in his dairy, but now as you're finding out the modern dairy farm uses a lot more motors and the total current draw is getting quite near to the 100 amp capacity of a single phase supply, especially on start up.
As your sparky suggests, going to 3phase is quite a cost, and the main benefit for most farms is the ability to run big motors (my biggest is 35hp), so one of the questions for you is whether you want to do like vantage has done in his previous post and update part of your setup soon, like put a bigger bulk tank.
Of course you could avoid the huge cost of getting it installed by putting in a generator, although it seems like you could avoid most if they're upgrading the lines.
Very useful info. Is 100 amp maximum on single phase.
 

upnortheast

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Northumberland
Basically 3ph gives you more beans
eg standard single phase supply is 100 amps
Possible to get something called split phase on a single phase line This gives you 2 live wires each rated at 100 amps
So max power on single phase is 200 amps.

We got a 90kva 3 ph supply 5 years ago
So we have 3 live wires each rated at 160 amps
So total power available is 480 amps
We needed 3 phase because as well as robots, bulk tank & all the usual stuff we have the milk processing side. The pasteruiser & seperater both are 3ph due to their power requirement.
Before the line was upgraded we ran the processing shed on a 3ph genny.when the kit was running.
 

DanniAgro

Member
I think it is for a domestic supply, unless you have a specially uprated installation for the farm.
Did your dairy setup just grow from a small setup or have you always been relatively large? If not it's probably little more than a domestic supply, like my farm is.
 

upnortheast

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Northumberland
Decent prospect of getting 3 phase installed here soon due to upcoming line upgrade. But I need to own up, despite having had it explained to me before, I don't fully understand the benefits of 3 phase, or the logistics involved in altering the existing fuse board etc. It's a dairy farm, so running vacuum pump, tank compressors etc. I mentioned it to our electrician couple of months ago and he put us off, saying it would be a huge amount of work for little gain? Supply coping currently, though house lights flicker when we start the parlour. Anyone willing to give me an idiots guide to 3 phase?!
As well as the money we paid to Northern powergrid the sparkeys cost our side of the meter was circa £5k. Genny change over switch, isolators ,connection boxes, fuse board. Stuff rated at 200 amps seems about 5x the price of standard 100 amp kit.
How it is set up.
A 3ph motor & other 3ph stuff will be connected to L1, L2, & L3 (all 3 phases )

Then the sparky will try & spread the load of the single phase cuicuits
So for example
The house might be on L1
The parlour on L2
The tank room on L3
 

tomlad

Member
Location
nr. preston
Sad reading
Ive been on with Scottish power to upgrade my 1 ph to 3ph for about a year now .
3 fuses are in so basically just want a 3ph meter, i can only really say spower are incompetent fools .
Obviously there using the covid card now , phone back after 4th aug .
Bunch of ar#e wholes .
My sparky wont even book me in now , can't blame him tbh.
 

upnortheast

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Northumberland
Sad reading
Ive been on with Scottish power to upgrade my 1 ph to 3ph for about a year now .
3 fuses are in so basically just want a 3ph meter, i can only really say spower are incompetent fools .
Obviously there using the covid card now , phone back after 4th aug .
Bunch of ar#e wholes .
My sparky wont even book me in now , can't blame him tbh.
Upgrading a power supply is a total pain
Done it twice & hope not to have to do it again.
Terrible people to deal with
 

Poncherello1976

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Oxfordshire
We are upgrading from single phase to 3 phase on the 31st July. Hopefully it will all go smoothly! SSE were on the ball after easing of lockdown, but EDF were a joke and had to really push to get them to nail a date down to fit the meter. It was all meant to happen in April, but of course now it is happening at the start of harvest!
 

Northern territory

Member
Livestock Farmer
We are upgrading from single phase to 3 phase on the 31st July. Hopefully it will all go smoothly! SSE were on the ball after easing of lockdown, but EDF were a joke and had to really push to get them to nail a date down to fit the meter. It was all meant to happen in April, but of course now it is happening at the start of harvest!
How much is it if you don’t mind me asking. Are you far from line.
 

Poncherello1976

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Oxfordshire
How much is it if you don’t mind me asking. Are you far from line.
Apparently not and so I am kicking myself that we did not do it sooner! First quote I had was for £5000. This was bringing it from a pole near the farm and trenching it up through the farm into the middle of it. After looking at their drawing I asked if it could just come from the pole to the next pole at the farm and then in to the building where our meter is already. So it is now coming from 1 pole to another pole and to our building with the meter in. So about 30m of cable. They came back with a quote of £600, so I bit their hand off. It also appears that EDF do not want paying to change the meter, so that is a bit of a result as well. British Gas my last supplier, (I switched in May), wanted £700 to do the job.
Great result, but with it being so close I am just annoyed that we did not do this 15 years ago!
I have just asked for a quote to a new building I have put up with electric no where near it, so I am bracing myself for that quote!
 

Northern territory

Member
Livestock Farmer
Apparently not and so I am kicking myself that we did not do it sooner! First quote I had was for £5000. This was bringing it from a pole near the farm and trenching it up through the farm into the middle of it. After looking at their drawing I asked if it could just come from the pole to the next pole at the farm and then in to the building where our meter is already. So it is now coming from 1 pole to another pole and to our building with the meter in. So about 30m of cable. They came back with a quote of £600, so I bit their hand off. It also appears that EDF do not want paying to change the meter, so that is a bit of a result as well. British Gas my last supplier, (I switched in May), wanted £700 to do the job.
Great result, but with it being so close I am just annoyed that we did not do this 15 years ago!
I have just asked for a quote to a new building I have put up with electric no where near it, so I am bracing myself for that quote!
Thanks might have to enquire
 

Poncherello1976

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Oxfordshire
Not sure if they are working now, but I have managed to get them to come on the 31st. They were not keen though. SSE have been up and running for almost a month now. I found it difficult to understand why SSE could come and put the line in, but EDF could not do the meter! They refused to even make an appointment. Somehow they managed to make it for the 31st and I had a letter come this morning confirming the appointment, so at least I have it in writing.
 

tomlad

Member
Location
nr. preston
Good luck
Have had prob 12 confirmed appointments from sp
Never turn up.
I get a £30 cheque most times if they take responsibility, think ive had 4 cheques now , but id sooner have me f#cking power so i can turn on my machines.
Very tabbo subject in my house, I'm not allowed to mention Scottish power :mad:.
Good luck
 

Wombat

Member
BASIS
Location
East yorks
Sad reading
Ive been on with Scottish power to upgrade my 1 ph to 3ph for about a year now .
3 fuses are in so basically just want a 3ph meter, i can only really say spower are incompetent fools .
Obviously there using the covid card now , phone back after 4th aug .
Bunch of ar#e wholes .
My sparky wont even book me in now , can't blame him tbh.

When EON did ours it was about £80 and 5mins I just rang up asked for a 3phase Meter. Said we had all the fuses in but only a single meter. They came out and ripped the old meter out new 3 phase one about 20mins I was very surprised how easy it was
 

Poncherello1976

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Oxfordshire
Good luck
Have had prob 12 confirmed appointments from sp
Never turn up.
I get a £30 cheque most times if they take responsibility, think ive had 4 cheques now , but id sooner have me f#cking power so i can turn on my machines.
Very tabbo subject in my house, I'm not allowed to mention Scottish power :mad:.
Good luck
Thanks. I will not believe it will be done until it is so I am just waiting for the 31st. Hopefully it will all go smoothly, but I am a bit of a pessimist when it come to things like this! April would have worked out really well. Now it is being done at a time of our peak usage so I am bit more nervous than I would have been. We are having a woodchip boiler put in in September so I want it up and running for that. I can then upgrade things gradually as and when we need to.
 

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