Uptake of herbal leys.

[yoki]

I'm sure others will have received this, seems a valid enough concern and typical of how the system becomes unbalanced by excessive interference?

Open Letter to Defra: The Cost of Herbal Leys - Pasture for Life - Certified 100% grass-fed meat, milk and dairy

Open letter to Defra urging a revision of Sustainable Farming Incentive (SFI) action for Herbal Leys “CSAM3”

www.pastureforlife.org

 

[heritagefarmer]

I appreciate the concern and a lot of the nuance is addressed, but they state they want to achieve a varied root structure with this action, why shouldn’t anyone do that on their own permanent pasture if that’s what they want to do and they have control of the land

 

[delilah]

There is no public good in using public money to introduce invasive species to PP. It is a toss up to decide which will be killed off first; the plants or the policy.

As with the DD sub, in years to come folks will look back at all of this and ask "who the hell came up with this nonsense ?". And, again as with the DD sub, the answer to that question is "farmers". Telling Defra that there are 'good' and 'bad' ways of farming.

 

[Hindsight]

There is no public good in using public money to introduce invasive species to PP. It is a toss up to decide which will be killed off first; the plants or the policy.

As with the DD sub, in years to come folks will look back at all of this and ask "who the hell came up with this nonsense ?". And, again as with the DD sub, the answer to that question is "farmers". Telling Defra that there are 'good' and 'bad' ways of farming.

And defra. Ideological removal of a fixed area payment. Flush with cash and not sure how to get it out the door to farmers.

 

[delilah]

And defra. Ideological removal of a fixed area payment. Flush with cash and not sure how to get it out the door to farmers.

I don't buy it. Janet and her colleagues came to this with a blank slate. Everything they have put in place, they got from farmers.

 

[Treg]

Twits

There won't be any livestock farms left if they get their way.
Then they won't have species rich grassland either, do they know how species rich grassland is made?

I do agree with the spraying and ploughing bit, that probably should have been put in the rules, the same rules should apply to arable farms who choose a similar option, just to make it fair.

 

[Hindsight]

I don't buy it. Janet and her colleagues came to this with a blank slate. Everything they have put in place, they got from farmers.

Nah, your just blinkered with that prejudice

The SARIC project among other similar has driven the Herbal Ley policy. Not sat on a bale at Groundswell in the Summer

Sustainable Agriculture Research and Innovation Club (SARIC)

The Sustainable Agriculture Research and Innovation Club (SARIC) is a joint Biotechnology and Biological Sciences Research Council (BBSRC) and Natural Environment Research Council (NERC) initiative to support innovative projects that will provide solutions to key challenges affecting the...

www.ukri.org

 

[Jackov Altraids]

Nah, your just blinkered with that prejudice

The SARIC project among other similar has driven the Herbal Ley policy. Not sat on a bale at Groundswell in the Summer

Sustainable Agriculture Research and Innovation Club (SARIC)

The Sustainable Agriculture Research and Innovation Club (SARIC) is a joint Biotechnology and Biological Sciences Research Council (BBSRC) and Natural Environment Research Council (NERC) initiative to support innovative projects that will provide solutions to key challenges affecting the...

www.ukri.org

That explains a lot;

Research challenges​

Approximately £10 million of funding is available through the five-year partnership between BBSRC, NERC and a consortium of leading companies to address two key challenges identified by industry:

• resilient and robust crop and livestock production systems
• predictive capability and modelling for new technologies, tools, products and services.

Funding for these areas is split into two streams:

• research grants, providing new knowledge and data
• research translation grants developing tools and products from existing data.

In recognition of an increased interest and importance of the inclusion of social and economic science perspectives to challenges in sustainable agriculture, Economic and Social Research Council (ESRC) has become a partner in the second SARIC funding opportunity.

Club members​

SARIC has 12 company members who contribute to funding research and take part in directing the Club’s activities. SARIC has a total budget of approximately £10 million:

• £1 million – company membership subscriptions
• £9 million – BBSRC, NERC and ESRC.

Industry members​

• Associated British Agriculture
• AHDB
• Anglian Water
• Barworth Agriculture
• Bayer Crop Science
• BBRO
• Cawood Scientific
• Elsoms Seeds
• Environment Systems
• Monsanto
• Syngenta
• Welsh Water

 

[livestock 1]

This is probably well known but I was told on Tuesday that you can’t claim Biodiversity net gain whilst in sfi

 

[Henarar]

Then they won't have species rich grassland either, do they know how species rich grassland is made?

Made? I thought it grew
Ploughing every now and then won't hurt long turm either, never has here those old grasses always come back, there would be parts of this farm that wouldn't be any good for machinery if it couldn't be ploughed every now and then.
not sure about spraying off before reseeding, never had the need to do it

 

[delilah]

Nah, your just blinkered with that prejudice

No point having a dogma unless you stick to it

 

[Treg]

Made? I thought it grew
Ploughing every now and then won't hurt long turm either, never has here those old grasses always come back, there would be parts of this farm that wouldn't be any good for machinery if it couldn't be ploughed every now and then.
not sure about spraying off before reseeding, never had the need to do it

Yes it does grow, from seeds, sometimes from seeds that are naturally dropped, sometimes from a person who deliberately scatters seed ( can't remembered what those people are called as there's less of them than there was ).
Sometimes adding seeds to a ley especially permanent pasture can increase its diversity bringing it closer to species rich pasture.

There are species of plant I wouldn't want to lose from my pasture, yellow birds foot trefoil , self heal , knapweed and wild red clover , I also want to reseed every few years so chain harrowing and broadcasting a herbal ley over the top helps rejuvenate my grassland but keeps diversity.

 

[Jackov Altraids]

Yes it does grow, from seeds, sometimes from seeds that are naturally dropped, sometimes from a person who deliberately scatters seed ( can't remembered what those people are called as there's less of them than there was ).
Sometimes adding seeds to a ley especially permanent pasture can increase its diversity bringing it closer to species rich pasture.

There are species of plant I wouldn't want to lose from my pasture, yellow birds foot trefoil , self heal , knapweed and wild red clover , I also want to reseed every few years so chain harrowing and broadcasting a herbal ley over the top helps rejuvenate my grassland but keeps diversity.

What you are doing sounds like sustainable farming.
We were told that SFI would not be prescriptive and reward those achieving set outcomes.
They've designed a system where farmers have got bills for cultivation and seed to collect the money.
It's not s sustainable farming incentive, it's countryside stewardship on acid.

 

[Treg]

What you are doing sounds like sustainable farming.
We were told that SFI would not be prescriptive and reward those achieving set outcomes.
They've designed a system where farmers have got bills for cultivation and seed to collect the money.
It's not s sustainable farming incentive, it's countryside stewardship on acid.

Looking at the list of names in your earlier post , no wonder they've ended up where they are.

Researchers make stunning discovery after examining farmland treated only with organic fertilizers for decades: '[Will] help us to move forward’

Researchers at Kansas State University have been studying how different farming practices impact soil carbon storage.

www.thecooldown.com

No SFI payment for spreading Organic manure then?

 

[Jackov Altraids]

Looking at the list of names in your earlier post , no wonder they've ended up where they are.

Researchers make stunning discovery after examining farmland treated only with organic fertilizers for decades: '[Will] help us to move forward’

Researchers at Kansas State University have been studying how different farming practices impact soil carbon storage.

www.thecooldown.com

No SFI payment for spreading Organic manure then?

And the EA [among many] are forcing us to keep less livestock and subsequently make us use more artificial.

 

[DrWazzock]

What you are doing sounds like sustainable farming.
We were told that SFI would not be prescriptive and reward those achieving set outcomes.
They've designed a system where farmers have got bills for cultivation and seed to collect the money.
It's not s sustainable farming incentive, it's countryside stewardship on acid.

Agreed. What would work quite well here is a year of arable fallow sown to a mix of brassicas, legumes, grasses and forage cereals, grazed on as as appropriate basis. It’s a plan I have which harks back to Victorian times used to break crop disease and livestock worm cycles. It doesn’t fit SFI though. To them you either have an arable legume fallow where grazing isn’t allowed or you have 2 year herbal ley which we don’t need here.
It’s quite restrictive building your system around SFI, something less than optimum just to meet the requirements of the rules.

 

[Joe will]

I have 20acres of herb lay in and its grown really well. I have very dry brashy land and it was put in to combat burn up in the hot summers we have been experiencing. If it wasn't for my conditions I wouldn't do it. What I find baffling is you don't have any to submit evidence once planted established or yearly to justify your payments.

 

[Treg]

I have 20acres of herb lay in and its grown really well. I have very dry brashy land and it was put in to combat burn up in the hot summers we have been experiencing. If it wasn't for my conditions I wouldn't do it. What I find baffling is you don't have any to submit evidence once planted established or yearly to justify your payments.

I've already had a inspection to show that I've done what I've applied for.

 

[Joe will]

I've already had a inspection to show that I've done what I've applied for.

Well I hope in your case all worked out. The RPA online portal is a very good tool and I'm not saying anyone doesn't need to be supported before anyone gets me wrong. I think there should be an upload box to upload your seed invoice showing the SFI mix used and rates. Then another upload for date of sowing and then after the second quarter a upload for images of established lay. It would save site inspections and some taking the pee.

 

[Henarar]

Well I hope in your case all worked out. The RPA online portal is a very good tool and I'm not saying anyone doesn't need to be supported before anyone gets me wrong. I think there should be an upload box to upload your seed invoice showing the SFI mix used and rates. Then another upload for date of sowing and then after the second quarter a upload for images of established lay. It would save site inspections and some taking the pee.

you don't have to show a seed invoice, you don't have to sow any seed if what is needed is already there
and that is good