Urea in the seedbed for spring barley
- Thread starter JCfarmer
- Start date
merino
Member
- Location
- The North East
Depends on how dry it is.
If it's dry it should be 25kg of urea.
Yes deeper placement or side banding would prevent the seed dying but that's not by any means a universal feature on British grain and fertiliser drills, more importantly the description in the original post doesn't suggest banding separately.
Amusingly the American corn growers who do use deep banded urea also then have to use fertiliser next to the seed.
Sometimes containing urea.
- Location
- Lorette Manitoba
The yanks are mostly corn and many are very obsessed with squeezing the last ounce out of every acre. Also maize/corn Is a very hungry crop and putting the nutrients down where the roots go is more efficient that spinning it on and waiting for rain.
DeeGee
Member
- Location
- North East Wales
With modern ‘spinners’ broadcasting to such wide bouts, if the debate were taking place here I would just broadcast it on the seedbed prior to sowing; at whatever rate you and your agronomist think is best.
By nature any form of fertiliser will play havoc with the drill mechanisms unless they are scrupulously cleaned after use. Part of the reason so many people (including myself) went off the combined drilling craze in the sixties and seventies was the added time taken to sow the crop due to ‘double filling’; but also the time taken to dismantle and clean all the fertiliser distribution components after use.
Plenty of others will be far more clued up about modern methods than I am, but sometimes we need to remember that there are valid reasons why the farming industry has ditched certain historical ‘experimental’ methods.
So do bear in mind that this is just one point of view, and from a post Cambrian era fossil, for you to maybe bear in mind.
By nature any form of fertiliser will play havoc with the drill mechanisms unless they are scrupulously cleaned after use. Part of the reason so many people (including myself) went off the combined drilling craze in the sixties and seventies was the added time taken to sow the crop due to ‘double filling’; but also the time taken to dismantle and clean all the fertiliser distribution components after use.
Plenty of others will be far more clued up about modern methods than I am, but sometimes we need to remember that there are valid reasons why the farming industry has ditched certain historical ‘experimental’ methods.
So do bear in mind that this is just one point of view, and from a post Cambrian era fossil, for you to maybe bear in mind.
Huntstreet
Member
How did you get on with 100kg/ha or Urea down the spout with SBarley? Did you follow it up with another dose?
I'm thinking of trying it this year in a split hopper DD Avatar disc drill. 100kg of 46% urea would give me 46 units of N at drilling. So I would have to spread the rest after drilling. Makes me think what's the advantage if I've got to still go out with the Fert spreader? Could the total rate of N be reduced because I'm accurately placing N with the seed? Or could I up the rate to 200kg/ha (92 Units of N) and save an operation with the spreader? Or is there some middle ground between the two. Say 150kg/ha of urea (70units of N) down the spout and don't top up and save an operation with the spreader and a bit of N?
My tactic last year was to spread 90-100 units of N (Nitram not Urea) on the seed bed after drilling with a rapid at 500 seeds/m2. I also DD one field after grazed turnips. The yields were all fine with both methods.
Why change it? Well I now have a drill that can apply Fert down the spout so if it can be used to remove another operation then great and I think putting it on with a drill must be more efficient? I also have a lot more urea this year because it was cheaper per unit of N than AN. Urea takes longer to dissolve so it may be better in the slot than stilling on top.
Fish
Member
- Location
- North yorkshire
First off, you are getting your kg/ha and units/acre mixed up, eg 100kg 46%/ha =37
units/acre, 200kg 46%/ = 74 unit/acre, just to add to the confusion, but I know what you meant
second, understand how urea works, and work on the kiss solution, sling the urea on pre drilling, preferably around a week before, then the n is available by the time the seed needs it.
I guess you could spread 100 acres in the time it takes to fill and cal the drill.
Huntstreet
Member
Thanks fish but I’m working in ha so not sure why you are referring to acres.
Anyway, I agree, urea wants to go on before drilling. Putting it down the slot with the seed is risky.
Anyway, I agree, urea wants to go on before drilling. Putting it down the slot with the seed is risky.
Because you mentioned 46 units n. Units of n is a per acre thing
Fish
Member
- Location
- North yorkshire
Yes, in that lethal area where people mix imperial and metric measurements, remember the NASA mars mission
Huntstreet
Member
I didn't know that.
It worked fine with 100kg of urea down the spout and at least it went into some moisture and near the seed.
I wouldn't go with much more mind, only way to find out is try a strip?
Still spun on another 110kg but it's a mute point weather that is applied before drilling or after when using urea.
Huntstreet
Member
Thanks for your replies. With the info above and other reading I have done on US forums I think it's just too risky and it doesn't really save me time or money, as I still have to go over again with the spreader after drilling.
If you could get the urea a couple of inches benith the seed at the point of drilling it wouldn't be an issue. Well that's what some people do elsewhere with success.
Thanks all.
If you could get the urea a couple of inches benith the seed at the point of drilling it wouldn't be an issue. Well that's what some people do elsewhere with success.
Thanks all.
ollie989898
Member
Urea is a darn sight kinder to the soil than AN. I think most would agree with that. Getting it on early is essential as it takes time to get to work. Had people who put big doses of N on spring barley ahead of the drill and the drill would then cover it over a bit. Never seen any issues.
- Location
- Lorette Manitoba
Any urea here wants incorporating. Only a very small amount would go right with the seed. I can say I’ve f Ed up barley with too much too close. It will depend on seed row width and moisture conditions but very few here would risk combining the two. Wheat and oat can take more but why risk poor establishment.
- Location
- Lorette Manitoba
Benieith the seed row would be a perfect placement. In moisture and readily in the root zone. If your low in phos combining the two is supposed to make the phos more readily available.
ollie989898
Member
Yes, some people use DAP for that very purpose here, under OSR and spring cereal crops.
Chae1
Member
- Location
- Aberdeenshire
I'd guess 90% of spring barley crops in NE Scotland are established with starter fert.
Not straight urea, but some would be blends containing urea.
We've bought 16.16.16 plus 6.5s for next years crop
Not straight urea, but some would be blends containing urea.
We've bought 16.16.16 plus 6.5s for next years crop
ollie989898
Member
When would you guys tend to drill spring barley up there? I'm sort of assuming you are able to get good weather windows and go in Jan/Feb but I've no clue.
Chae1
Member
- Location
- Aberdeenshire
Normally start in March. Just depends on weather. Never put any in Jan/Feb. Still cows in light land fields that are sown first.