Urea VS AN

[Renaultman]

I still get a better net farm margin from putting more N on. I try and sit at the left hand end of zone B

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I see where you're coming from though. Would you say you're in zone A?

Me too, just need to get the herbicide usage further to the left now

 

[yellow belly]

On wheat I now use all urea and aim to get it an early half in feb March if travelable rest late March
if we have to use inhibiter then i will look at all on early or even som on in winter

the problem with an is if you get heavy rain after application some goes down the drains
on non drained soil it is deeper so can be used by the crop
putting on a little an often is just added cost one weather dependent

with urea and dry years it is easy to put it on early in a wet year later application is not a big problem

before urea used liquid 1990 to 2014 prior to 1990 father used an and muck

with modern weighcel and gps spreaders properly tray tested the accuracy is similar

in trials an v urea vs. uan there is very little difference although there are individual trials that can show each sort of n as better so it is possible to cherry pick the results to prove one is better

another way is to aply the trial all on the same timing rather than optimise the timing for each product
would any one compare a contact herbicide to a preemergence all aplied on the Same day

 

[snarling bee]

another way is to aply the trial all on the same timing rather than optimise the timing for each product
would any one compare a contact herbicide to a preemergence all aplied on the Same day

Is this a contradiction?
Trials protocol comparing products would normally dictate application on the same day. But for AN v Urea, if you would apply urea early on farm then the trial should apply it earlier.
Trouble is on farm you usually apply it when you can get on, especially in Feb/March.

 

[Gong Farmer]

Trials protocol comparing products would normally dictate application on the same day. But for AN v Urea, if you would apply urea early on farm then the trial should apply it earlier.

A proper trial would test both timings for both products.

 

[yellow belly]

A proper trial would test both timings for both products.

I agree but often see trials present by vested interests to prove their marketing line

this year i have always had a rain with 48 hours of using urea
I would have preferred to apply it all earlier but we were too busy and it was too dry a forecast and before that too wet to travel
we may have been fortunate with rain but when looking back we often get rain here when most others get non in a dry spell
in A wet spell it is usually too wet

 

[JH44]

Both farms are mixed and use FYM. Our is put on before OSR and fertiliser is reduced to account for the N in the muck. My neighbour’s agronomist takes no account of any N in his muck, so on some (but not all!) of his fields, he could have gone over the N Response curve.

Niether farms apply P&K fertilers. My neighbour relying totally of FYM to provide this when he applies it, every 3-4 years to each field.

Glenside Group started testing this farm with Albrecht testing about 15 years ago. This showed that this area is very high in Iron (Iron to excess). It proved that after decades of applying TSP, the Iron, combined with Calcium had locked up all the P and that we had an enormous bank of locked up P. The Iron acts as a catalyst on locking up the P, because it forms highly insoluble Calcium Phospate (which is what out teeth are made of). K levels are naturally quite high on most of the farm and the muck that we use every 3 years is enough to maintain the levels we need.

So we stopped using any P&K fertiliser whatsoever, creating a huge cost saving. To unlock the P, we apply Sulphur in the form of Doubletop, which breaks the cation bond between the Calcium And Phosphate and releases it.

To act as a rootball stimulantand to help the crop capture Phosphate as it is released, we apply a Glenside product called Marriphite. This is a seaweed extract + Phosphite (Nutriphite). But @snarling bee , you might have a point because like @ajd132 suggests, I’m fairly certain it also contains molasses, which might be adding something to the party To make the urea work better. We use 3 litres/ha of Marriphite, split in 2 doses in the spring (T0 and T1 or 2).

My neighbour still sticks to RB209 using Doubletop and AN, but does sometimes use Nutriphite on his crops.
The Phosphite within Marriphite is an extremely cheap way of buying Nutriphite.

My neighbour also uses 100% Min-TIL, whereas we have given up on it due to Blackgrass and have returned to Ploughing To help control it. Having got it back under control, we have now started experimenting with No-TIL. My level of BG control is better than my neighbour. So that might account for some of the higher yields we get. But on this land here, I’m certain that Urea is as good, if not better than AN.

The phosphite in Marriphite is not Nutri-Phite (as for a lot of other generic phosphites) . Nutri-Phite is a stabilised phosphite and the phosphite in marriphite isnt. PO3 oxidises very quickly to PO4 (its an industrial reducing agent) and so without stabilisation you will need to use at least 2x the amount. So per litre Nutri-Phite is more expensive but per hectare it normally isnt. Nutri-Phite is made from fresh acid and not recleaned acid which often contains impurities ....... there is often a reason why products are extremely cheap rather than being a little bit cheaper than the original.

 

[wellingtonfarmer]

I’d strongly suggest that Area C is much, much shorter than your graph shows. I think that there is hardly any flat spot at all.

out of interest are you saying that yields drop if you put too much n on? If so why would that be?

 

[Brisel]

out of interest are you saying that yields drop if you put too much n on? If so why would that be?

Lodging makes your harvestable yield drop very quickly. Ideally, I'd rename the Y axis as margin, not yield.

 

[Two Tone]

out of interest are you saying that yields drop if you put too much n on? If so why would that be?

Yes, too much N will reduce yields. It’s like it poisons it. We’ve all seen what happens where you spill a bit out of the bag when loading the spreader..

IMO the nitrogen response curve Graph does not have a flat spot at the peak yield, before yield drops.

 

[jack6480]

I have bought CAN, I was advised this was less harsh on the ground than singletop

 

[Brisel]

I have bought CAN, I was advised this was less harsh on the ground than singletop

 

[ajd132]

I am going to be using a product called yara UreasS for every pass. It’s 38-0-0-19

 

[Brisel]

I am going to be using a product called yara UreasS for every pass. It’s 38-0-0-19

That's a lot of sulphur. That said, @Warnesworth is a fan of sulphur for releasing phosphate from the soil reserves. @Two Tone uses a fair bit of S from memory too. My N use is 3:1 ratio of N to SO3

 

[Two Tone]

That's a lot of sulphur. That said, @Warnesworth is a fan of sulphur for releasing phosphate from the soil reserves. @Two Tone uses a fair bit of S from memory too. My N use is 3:1 ratio of N to SO3

My ratio is roughly the same as yours. The idea being that Sulphur breaks the cation bond of Calcium Phosphate (high what teeth are made of and is relatively insoluble) to create Calcium Sulphate, relapsing the phosphate so the crop can pick it up.
IIRC, @Warnesworth used to be with Glenside, therefore was and is a huge Albrecht fan.

 

[ajd132]

That's a lot of sulphur. That said, @Warnesworth is a fan of sulphur for releasing phosphate from the soil reserves. @Two Tone uses a fair bit of S from memory too. My N use is 3:1 ratio of N to SO3

Yes correct, we can’t get enough sulphur economically with liquid feet’s, it’s too expensive. We could use the agroco but logistically it’s a pain and very time consuming.
Managed to get a year old top spec trailed Amazone with all the bells and whistles. Planning on putting a big auger tailgate from Czech Republic on a grain trailer then we can store it all at home and take it out from there in big amounts

 

[SilliamWhale]

I have bought CAN, I was advised this was less harsh on the ground than singletop

Was does harsh mean?

 

[SilliamWhale]

I am going to be using a product called yara UreasS for every pass. It’s 38-0-0-19

That's a lot of sulphur

 

[jack6480]

Was does harsh mean?

I’ve been told single top is bad for the ground but CAN is all good!

 

[Rob Holmes]

I am going to be using a product called yara UreasS for every pass. It’s 38-0-0-19

Any reason going with UreaS as apposed to Amidas or Piamon?

 

[ajd132]

Any reason going with UreaS as apposed to Amidas or Piamon?

It’s got the right split of N:s we want