Using muck to improve soil.

[Farmersdaughter]

[QUOTE

My whole land area is in essence a broadacre composting operation, with livestock sales to support my habit of building soil for the future[/QUOTE]
I like this idea. I see my farm as one big solar farm, collecting energy from the sun converting it into food. Where this food is for people, my animals the wildlife or the soil. The better the soil is functioning the better the "workers" (plants) can work to harvest that energy.

 

[Bossfarmer]

Depends on where you put the heap? Out in a field will lead to leaching and evaporation. It is not very tidy but leaving it in the shed until ready to spread after silage means only one handling and no losses or get some
spread thinly onto grassland in March will allow most to disappear by later first cuts.
Of course that is often only possible with a barrel spreader rather than rear discharge one.

if your growing low N spring barley will it not be best to let it compost for a year to get some n out of it or do you lose the p & k too?

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Quite interesting to get a lab soil test done.

It's amazingly high in pH - until you understand how pH is a function of free hydrogen in a soil, and bonds to carbon.

Also interesting to me is the C:N ratio as the main ingredients in this are woodchip (c. 400:1) and cow manure (10:1?) in reasonably even amounts, yet the compost tests about 14:1

either way I'm looking forward to getting it spread

 

[bitwrx]

View attachment 793254 View attachment 793256
Quite interesting to get a lab soil test done.

It's amazingly high in pH - until you understand how pH is a function of free hydrogen in a soil, and bonds to carbon.

Also interesting to me is the C:N ratio as the main ingredients in this are woodchip (c. 400:1) and cow manure (10:1?) in reasonably even amounts, yet the compost tests about 14:1

either way I'm looking forward to getting it spread

So it gained nitrogen (by proportion) in the composting?

Now I'm intrigued. I'm guessing the bugs fix N from the air in their respiration (or release C in the form of CO2, which seems more likely to my uneducated mind). Do you know what's going on @Kiwi Pete, or is this one of those "don't know why, it just works" things.

Do you know any good books on this? So much in the internet has so many wishy washy explanations, I don't feel all that enlightened. And the array of books is mind boggling. I'm gonna need a personal recommendation.

I've got a small amount of wood to chip, and a vast amount of FYM and slurry. Need to figure out how to make best use of it.

 

[Simon C]

The farming forum. Plenty of experts there.

Hope you're not being sarcastic.

Fletcher Sim's Compost is the best

 

[Blaithin]

On a more infrastructure, long term, change level, I really like the work of anaerobic digesters. Not sure how monetarily feasible they are over there (or regulation feasible in your regulated world) or if there's any grants available for them as a renewable energy source.

Another option is making a compost bedding pack in the barn. I've seen this done successfully in a dairy barn and I'm sure it would work just as well in beef cattle housed as much as they are in the UK. The farmers simply dump wood chips in the communal bedding area - no mattresses or stalls in the barn - and then twice a day they rototill it. Gradually as more manure builds up it takes on the look of loamy soil while helping provide a bit of heat in the winter. I believe they switch it out and put fresh chips in twice a year. This could be particularly appealing considering the cost of straw over there, which seems to be a bit on the high and hard to find end. Couple loads of chips a year might be a cheaper source than straw. I'm also going to go out on an assumption limb and say it leaves them with less slurry to deal with. They don't seem to have a particularly large lagoon and the only area they scrape is the feeding isle and directly in front of the waterers and robots, otherwise the rest is all compost bed.

Depending how the sheds are set up it probably wouldn't take much infrastructure change to try out a compost bedding pack.

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

On a more infrastructure, long term, change level, I really like the work of anaerobic digesters. Not sure how monetarily feasible they are over there (or regulation feasible in your regulated world) or if there's any grants available for them as a renewable energy source.

Another option is making a compost bedding pack in the barn. I've seen this done successfully in a dairy barn and I'm sure it would work just as well in beef cattle housed as much as they are in the UK. The farmers simply dump wood chips in the communal bedding area - no mattresses or stalls in the barn - and then twice a day they rototill it. Gradually as more manure builds up it takes on the look of loamy soil while helping provide a bit of heat in the winter. I believe they switch it out and put fresh chips in twice a year. This could be particularly appealing considering the cost of straw over there, which seems to be a bit on the high and hard to find end. Couple loads of chips a year might be a cheaper source than straw. I'm also going to go out on an assumption limb and say it leaves them with less slurry to deal with. They don't seem to have a particularly large lagoon and the only area they scrape is the feeding isle and directly in front of the waterers and robots, otherwise the rest is all compost bed.

Depending how the sheds are set up it probably wouldn't take much infrastructure change to try out a compost bedding pack.

Anaerobic digesters are a huge deal over here. They are subsidised (paid extra for their electricity generation). I agree wholeheartedly with putting waste through them but most here use forage maize as their base feedstock, taking up thousands of acres of good farmland in the process.

As for using woodchip bedding there are a few trying it here as straw can be very expensive. Some use shredded paper as well. I'm not sure if anyone has tried composting it in the shed but it sounds like a useful idea.

 

[Blaithin]

Anaerobic digesters are a huge deal over here. They are subsidised (paid extra for their electricity generation). I agree wholeheartedly with putting waste through them but most here use forage maize as their base feedstock, taking up thousands of acres of good farmland in the process.

What's it matter what most do with theirs? If a farmer wants to install one and use it to break down the manure from the animals he's already fed the corn silage too... seems like a way to get more out of one crop really.

Digesters might make more power when fed the crops directly, but the numbers probably break down to getting more out of the crop if you first use it to feed and support livestock and then use the manure to feed the digester. Plus it breaks down the manure and gets you some nice fertilizer for the fields at the end. So really, you're getting three things out of one crop that way.

 

[Renaultman]

Hope you're not being sarcastic.

Fletcher Sim's Compost is the best

Me? Never There is a wealth of knowledge and wisdom on the TFF

 

[Chae1]

The N is bound to increase by composting, the size of the pile almost halves so it has become more concentrated as it rots.

We use a lot of waste wood thats been shredded, artic load a fortnight in winter. Always thought it was bad for the soil, but reading this thread its maybe a good thing!

 

[Kiwi Pete]

It definitely can be.

Few things are "woodier than wood" and it can be a very cheap and effective ingredient for compost, especially in an agricultural setting where there is an abundance of nitrogen.
Certainly it's better than it's weight in straw for the purpose, and likely harbours less pathogens as a bedding medium as well - it works well here.

I was actually quite horrified when I cleaned out my barn after a year and saw all the fungi I was disturbing, so now I am just leaving it to decompose in situ and simply topping it up to keep it roughly at the same level, and watering it during summer to keep it going - rather than rototilling it as is common overseas with composting barns.
It drastically reduces the time and effort required: works out about NZ$10 per head per year and produces some great compost, when you compare it with conventional NPK expenditure it isn't hard to justify!!

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

It definitely can be.

Few things are "woodier than wood" and it can be a very cheap and effective ingredient for compost, especially in an agricultural setting where there is an abundance of nitrogen.
Certainly it's better than it's weight in straw for the purpose, and likely harbours less pathogens as a bedding medium as well - it works well here.

I was actually quite horrified when I cleaned out my barn after a year and saw all the fungi I was disturbing, so now I am just leaving it to decompose in situ and simply topping it up to keep it roughly at the same level, and watering it during summer to keep it going - rather than rototilling it as is common overseas with composting barns.
It drastically reduces the time and effort required: works out about NZ$10 per head per year and produces some great compost, when you compare it with conventional NPK expenditure it isn't hard to justify!!

So how often will you clear it out?

 

[Kiwi Pete]

So how often will you clear it out?

Good question.
I'm still learning, a lot, and at the moment still taking silage off my land so that's created a hole to fill in.
Hopefully that will change in time to bringing silage in the gate, which will then allow the compost to be more of an 'additive' rather than simply completing the nutrient cycle.

You can definitely see the effect of taking a couple of heavy cuts off an area without replacing that fertility, but the advantage is how easily this can be rectified by basically adding 33%OM compost to the landscape at various rates

 

[Farmer Fin]

View attachment 793254 View attachment 793256
Quite interesting to get a lab soil test done.

It's amazingly high in pH - until you understand how pH is a function of free hydrogen in a soil, and bonds to carbon.

Also interesting to me is the C:N ratio as the main ingredients in this are woodchip (c. 400:1) and cow manure (10:1?) in reasonably even amounts, yet the compost tests about 14:1

either way I'm looking forward to getting it spread

Are these done to a standard DM. I would imagine you are losing C in the form of Methane and carbon dioxide during composting. Can’t see how you are making more, unless you have a legume growing on it???

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Are these done to a standard DM. I would imagine you are losing C in the form of Methane and carbon dioxide during composting. Can’t see how you are making more, unless you have a legume growing on it???

No, not at all.
I assume they'll dry the samples out but have no idea how far, or for which tests.

And there will be considerable loss, considerable "concentration" too, as the heap is still well aerated but well under half the size - organic matter is easy to come by, but humus isn't. Manure is anaerobic by nature, so that part has to be overcome in order to effectively compost it

 

[davidroberts30]

Good question.
I'm still learning, a lot, and at the moment still taking silage off my land so that's created a hole to fill in.
Hopefully that will change in time to bringing silage in the gate, which will then allow the compost to be more of an 'additive' rather than simply completing the nutrient cycle.

You can definitely see the effect of taking a couple of heavy cuts off an area without replacing that fertility, but the advantage is how easily this can be rectified by basically adding 33%OM compost to the landscape at various rates

Do you think maybe you should take the top half off the pile and leave the fungus and good stuff in a layer underneath to start off the next lot so to speak?

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Do you think maybe you should take the top half off the pile and leave the fungus and good stuff in a layer underneath to start off the next lot so to speak?

There'd be a lot of merit in that

My "starter" is possibly largely in the soil, as it's been used for the same thing for over 15 years. I do add a bit (not a lot, but a good bucket-full) of proper NZ "bush soil" ie leaf litter from a patch of native bush.
It's seriously good stuff IMO, and generally comes with plenty of gnarly big tiger worms in it.

 

[davidroberts30]

There'd be a lot of merit in that

My "starter" is possibly largely in the soil, as it's been used for the same thing for over 15 years. I do add a bit (not a lot, but a good bucket-full) of proper NZ "bush soil" ie leaf litter from a patch of native bush.
It's seriously good stuff IMO, and generally comes with plenty of gnarly big tiger worms in it.

If I clear sheds out Like it leave it on a field if possible as the worms work their way into the pile then get spread around

 

[Agrispeed]

Anyone have any experience with digestate? I've been offered as much seperated liquor as I want for free, Marginal P and K but 4.5kg/N a ton and a decent amount of sulphur and other goodies.

We've had some poor grass growth this spring and after speaking with a few consultants we're pretty certain its because of the drought and subsequent over grazing last summer and over winter.

 

[Renaultman]

Anyone have any experience with digestate? I've been offered as much seperated liquor as I want for free, Marginal P and K but 4.5kg/N a ton and a decent amount of sulphur and other goodies.

We've had some poor grass growth this spring and after speaking with a few consultants we're pretty certain its because of the drought and subsequent over grazing last summer and over winter.

A lot of good results around here . I would want to know what was going in to it first though.