- Location
- Cumbria
Was any analysis done ?
Using sugar beet in AD from a Lagoon
- Thread starter Jim Pace
- Start date
Was any analysis done ?
Yes
same as rotten muck/dung I suppose,
It's still got gas yield in it
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Obviously no good for feeding livestock on this basis but digester doesn't mind on a small % inclusion on a daily basis
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Too much is made of this clamping thing IMO.
We clamped 50000t with only one fendt tractor on the clamp and no special compaction kit.
As long as compaction etc is sufficient it doesn't need compacted to death.
The rye coming in at 35-40% DM is dry anyway so abit of moisture soaking down from a fibre layer above doesn't actually worry me.
same as rotten muck/dung I suppose,
It's still got gas yield in it
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Obviously no good for feeding livestock on this basis but digester doesn't mind on a small % inclusion on a daily basis
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Too much is made of this clamping thing IMO.
We clamped 50000t with only one fendt tractor on the clamp and no special compaction kit.
As long as compaction etc is sufficient it doesn't need compacted to death.
The rye coming in at 35-40% DM is dry anyway so abit of moisture soaking down from a fibre layer above doesn't actually worry me.
Exfarmer
Member
- Location
- Bury St Edmunds
You are quite right that compaction is not important, but lack of compaction combined with no sealing and high DM is a recipe for a huge amount of waste.
Compaction gives very little benefit compared to high storage and good sealing.
I must emphasise I have no knowledge of AD plants and all my experience is feeding cows a while ago.
- Location
- Cumbria
Looking forward, the real cream in profits are the small percentages, the extra few hours operation, the reduced maintenance costs, the improved BMP etc, etc.
This means being on-point with every area. It is better to roll well and sheet a clamp - I think we all agree, however at what cost ? And, if a cheaper compromise can found, that considers ALL the respective costs, then so be it.
In my view, you will only get max production from the best feed-stock fed in. This cost of providing this should be an overall cost - Not just the sheeting of the clamp.
This means being on-point with every area. It is better to roll well and sheet a clamp - I think we all agree, however at what cost ? And, if a cheaper compromise can found, that considers ALL the respective costs, then so be it.
In my view, you will only get max production from the best feed-stock fed in. This cost of providing this should be an overall cost - Not just the sheeting of the clamp.
very interesting to read all the posts on sheeting. We would love not to sheet if we felt we could get away with it BUT if you take DGC1's clamp at 150m by 60m (I presume this is likely to be grass given you are in Scotland), but say it is maize and say it is an average of 6m high and a density of around 0.85 tonnes per m3, that is pretty much 49,000 tonnes. Say it is worth £35 per tonne once it is clamped. That means the clamp is worth £1,715,000 and as such one percent losses costs £17,000. I cant believe that even if it does not look spoiled, the extra heat loss and therefore energy loss far outweighs the effort and cost of sheeting. I would truly love to be wrong as we all hate sheeting the clamps and the unsheeting and messing about with gravel bags and rubber mats. Our clamps are similar to DGC1's. We now go to an agency and get in around 12 agency workers, typically they are East Europeans and very hard workers. we can sheet net and bag the clamps in a day. many hands make it doable.
Young Wilf- I would love to come and see how you clamp the beet with the maize. I don't know where you are geographically but we are in East Kent. I presume you have to chop the beet before putting it into the solid feeder. Does the beet juice eat the silage clamp floor. we are finding the maize juice is even quite aggressive.
Young Wilf- I would love to come and see how you clamp the beet with the maize. I don't know where you are geographically but we are in East Kent. I presume you have to chop the beet before putting it into the solid feeder. Does the beet juice eat the silage clamp floor. we are finding the maize juice is even quite aggressive.
thanks jim
mostly all rye in the clamp with a tiny amount of draff and small tonnage of Italian/grass
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say putting the pressed fibre on top and rolling it in + sowing down some wheat seed created almost zero wastage then the economics would stack up.....
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other benefits to go with it over and above no sheeting/unsheeting nonsense i.e
- no tyres/gravel bags/ sheets etc to store on site to make site untidy
- no h&s risk of guys up on big clamps (our walls are 4.2m high so always a risk there somewhere even if managed)
- no organisation of materials or labour
- a fraction of the instant site run-off when heavy rain
- a lot greener as no plastic involved or its disposal
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I think I'm going to give it a whirl!
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did you see my pm/conversation I sent you?
mostly all rye in the clamp with a tiny amount of draff and small tonnage of Italian/grass
--
say putting the pressed fibre on top and rolling it in + sowing down some wheat seed created almost zero wastage then the economics would stack up.....
--
other benefits to go with it over and above no sheeting/unsheeting nonsense i.e
- no tyres/gravel bags/ sheets etc to store on site to make site untidy
- no h&s risk of guys up on big clamps (our walls are 4.2m high so always a risk there somewhere even if managed)
- no organisation of materials or labour
- a fraction of the instant site run-off when heavy rain
- a lot greener as no plastic involved or its disposal
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I think I'm going to give it a whirl!
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did you see my pm/conversation I sent you?
hi DGC1- just scrolled all the way through, I cant see the pm post. sorry if I am being daft.
I really hope your are right on the level of losses. One of the contractors that we use has suggested covering the clamp with waste fruit which there is a lot of in our area. using the solid fraction of the digestate does seem like a really good idea.
We too are in a really windy area, and the clamps are adjacent to a dual carriageway and only a mile inland from the sea. Our worst nightmare is sheeting blowing onto the road, and as such we spend a lot of time resheeting and repositioning gravel bags after storms. What you and others have said will make us have a rethink. I am not sure we are brave enough to try without sheets this year, perhaps we can all revisit the matter in the Autumn. maybe we will treat one of the field heaps like this and grass it over. it will certainly make it blend in better. what depth of digestate are you thinking of putting on top of the rye?
I really hope your are right on the level of losses. One of the contractors that we use has suggested covering the clamp with waste fruit which there is a lot of in our area. using the solid fraction of the digestate does seem like a really good idea.
We too are in a really windy area, and the clamps are adjacent to a dual carriageway and only a mile inland from the sea. Our worst nightmare is sheeting blowing onto the road, and as such we spend a lot of time resheeting and repositioning gravel bags after storms. What you and others have said will make us have a rethink. I am not sure we are brave enough to try without sheets this year, perhaps we can all revisit the matter in the Autumn. maybe we will treat one of the field heaps like this and grass it over. it will certainly make it blend in better. what depth of digestate are you thinking of putting on top of the rye?
was thinking of about 200mm compacted in with the dual wheels (we have the dual wheels on all round anyway for the bulk of the rye)
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just started another conversation with you but maybe you are not seeing that in the conversations part?.... maybe try starting one with me and it may work ok....
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just started another conversation with you but maybe you are not seeing that in the conversations part?.... maybe try starting one with me and it may work ok....
- Location
- Essex
I really don't understand the concept of not sheeting a clamp - are you saying you haven't got problem with losing 5-10% of your feedstock.
In Jims example - a 5% loss would be £17,000 x 5 = £85,000 pa over 20 years x20 £1.7m
Don't believe me see page 19 of the attached - you'll be lucky if your waste in a well managed clamp is below 10% up to 40% in a bad clamp.
Waste isn't just what you can see.
You can make the sheeting easier and I have written a long and bring monologue about it here (because I am boring). http://www.bock-uk.com/blog/
As for building a 4.2m high silage clamp... c'mon what were you thinking?
You have no idea how frustrating this as someone who really cares about making decent silage clamps safer.
Rant over.
Will
In Jims example - a 5% loss would be £17,000 x 5 = £85,000 pa over 20 years x20 £1.7m
Don't believe me see page 19 of the attached - you'll be lucky if your waste in a well managed clamp is below 10% up to 40% in a bad clamp.
Waste isn't just what you can see.
You can make the sheeting easier and I have written a long and bring monologue about it here (because I am boring). http://www.bock-uk.com/blog/
As for building a 4.2m high silage clamp... c'mon what were you thinking?
You have no idea how frustrating this as someone who really cares about making decent silage clamps safer.
Rant over.
Will