Vaderstad or Horsch??

Bully

Member
Location
Yorkshire
Just in the process of pricing up new 4m drills and these are the main 2 were looking at. There's hundreds of vaderstads in the area and we like the idea of them and the build quality however also had a demo of a Horsch pronto last year which was equally impressive. Have seen another Horsch in the area drilling when it was far too wet to even consider a vaderstad which impressed us especially when it came out. The vaderstad in question would be a 4m rapid so just after people's opinions on both or if there's any others to look at. Pulling power would be 160hp with 250 occasionally if required on some of the steeper hills. A full range of soil types to cover too. Was very interested by the grain and fert system available on the Horsch and it seemed to fit into our system well but apparently the vardy isn't as well thought out for this design dropping the fert at the front discs instead of with the seed. Once again anybody with any experience with this any comments gratefully received!
 
You wont pull a 4m vaderstad effectively with 160hp. Min of 200hp required if not the 250 when you throw into the equation heavy soils and undulating topography. Its designed to be used at speed - over 12km/h and to make full use of the components (system disc and levelling board) then you need some ponies up from. If your not going to make full use of the components then buy a Moore unidrill or Weaving disc drill.

Without doubt they are built fantastically and I think cheap to run. Just sold a 6m which works out to have cost me £1.27/ac which includes all spare parts, wearing metal and depreciation in value from purchase day as well as interest on the money. The place the seed perfectly and uniformly and it all comes up in rows like clockwork. We had 300hp on 6m and it would work in all situations although on proper heavy soil it was on its knees.

But they simply cant work in the wet and if you push them to then they pan the headlands like nothing else and will block up so badly you'll wonder why you ever bothered buying one in the first place. Last autumn highlighted to me that the rapid and sprinter st are not really competitors because a rapid will not run where a sprinter st will - no where near so they compliment each other. We had at least a 2 week window in september where we couldn't get the rapid into the fields but a sprinter would go.

We did use a CO horsch a few years ago and it was a good machine but its not as precise as the rapid and does not provide the cultivation the rapid does and looking at used versions the CO's have not faired so well as the ST's in terms of values.
 

Mdt

Member
Arable Farmer
Currently have a horsch and it will hopefully be replaced with a vaddy it certainly wont be another horsch! Tyre problems and mainly there is too much maintenance to do. Thats what we have found.
 

tealdog038

Member
Location
New Zealand
we run a 3m rapid behind a T7.210 which is only 165hp when towing and its more than enough power, it was on a M135 and that was good until you hit a hill with system disc in the ground. 4m is a few more discs tho! as for the fert in seperate rows we havent found any difference in crop establishment to the duncan enviro drill it replaced (new zealand made so not sure if uv heard of it) which was a triple disc setup and put fert in the same slot. the only time weve found it ever blocks is when its borderline too wet to be planting in the first place which in some cases is the only chance you'll get i suppose.

Other than that its been a great drill with plenty of options and capacity, accurate as anything else if you use better scales than the vaderstad set. maintenance is minimal grease discs every 300ha for 3m so it would be 400 for 4m im guessing all other grease points are easily accessible. so far its never planted a bad crop even when your planting at 20+km/hr to beat the rain lol
 
What are you changing to Lee? PH drill everything?

Well we have still got a 4m rapid and 2 x 4m combi's so the 6m rapid's gone with the view it would be replaced with a tine drill as we feel thats what we are missing. Last autumn as mentioned above we definitely had a 2 week window where a tine drill would have gone when the rapid would not. And also running with a 6m tine drill we will do as much work as 2 x 4m combi's would in the same day but with one tractor and man. As for make then Sprinter ST with a gen conversion.

We could also use clives 750 and Dale so we are pretty much covered and means we can put the combi drill's back into the nettles for a 'rainy day'. They owe us nothing at all but are handy to keep, just in case.
 

HAM135

Member
Arable Farmer
We run a 3m horsch dc grain fert drill,never had any problems with it in 5 seasons,just replaced first set of cultivation discs this yr,very easy to calibrate,will run at 15kph no problem,it's biggest limitation would be it struggles to have enough cultivation in real heavy going but otherwise copes well.​
 

Andyrob

Moderator
Media
I have a very clean 3m Rapid super xl for sale 100 acres only!

Well there is a horsch and vaderstad running locally both leave a very good finish. Rows are always consistent but the finish seems to be better on the vaderstad drill.

t6090 on a 4m vaderstad grain only drill
820 fendt on a 6m horsch pronto

both working in all conditions clay types and hilly ground.
 

Wheatland

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Shropshire
I think I would agree with Lee about power requirement for a Vaderstad. We had at least 200hp on ours and that wasn't enough to be on top of it. We now have a 6m Vaderstad on 360hp ,but also run a CO4 which works far longer in the wet. I have also recently bought a 3m Vaderstad box drill with grain and fert. It's a cheaper way to experiment with fert down the spout and easily adjustable row widths in osr. You would also be doing a very similar daily output compared to a 4m Vadestad .
 

tealdog038

Member
Location
New Zealand
You would also be doing a very similar daily output compared to a 4m Vadestad .

Last week i planted 23ha in roughly 10 hours so 2.3ha/hour with a 3m, average speed was about 13km/hr as it was straight into ripped ground. Now if someome has a 4m to compare? uploading sum footage of it on youtube now:)
 

jhorr30

Member
Location
Edinburgh
Using a 4m rapid grain and fert with hydraulic fan sowing 250kg/ha seed and 375kg/ha fert at around 13-13.5k I will sow around 3ha a hour in fields around 12ha in size rising to nearer 4ha an hour in fields around 24ha or bigger.
It is amazing how much time is taken up by turning.
 

Elmsted

Never Forgotten
Honorary Member
Location
Bucharest
I do know that this not the DD section of the forum. Buy my take on the OP is this. For autumn planted crops the vaddy rapid with two rows of cultivation discs in front has consistently been able over a decade and half to plant the crops in one pass. The crucial factor of a vaddy is circumferential disc forward speed must be as their technical chap says 10KPH as a minimum.
If it is too wet on unworked ground and a vaddy blocks you should not be in the field.

Michael Horsch offers things that often break apart and are conceptually full tillage theory planters. By the same token the newest Sumo offering going back to Sam Moores concept are I after many years of faffing around look to be a good drill. But I have not seen one working. But seems to be about exactly what Sam built before he reached an agreement with Shaun.

The application of fertiliser now being trendy is nothing much less than an MF 30 as we all did or hear of. It seems to be pushed as the new way but it ain't. Just look at MF 30 drill boots and imagine 2cwt acre of 15:15:15 going down the spout with close by 1cwt of seed. Sorry trying conversion from metric.

For us mixing N only and seed works.
 
Location
sh!t creek
We tried a 4m. Vaderstad Rapid, & a 6m. Sprinter this spring...... & bought a Vaderstad. Didn't like the fiddley job of altering shims for depth control, asp. as the front and back are seperate, remind's me of the Simba FreeFlow. Doesn't do much cultivatioin either which is prob. why they take abit less pulling (although the 160-230 hp in leaflet abit low i think) Also did too much through menu's on control box instead of using spool valves like the Vaderstad, making the Vaderstad box easier to work with. Rapid does far more cultivation, we can hopefully cut a pass out before drilling Depth control with the inter active depth control is supreme. As has been said before depth control, and eveness of emergence on a Rapid is excellant.
Last year was an exception rather than the norm (hopefully) & anybody round here that drilled November onwards wishs they'd left it in the bag.
Whilst it is always good to have a contingency plan in place, I think the popularity of the Rapid speaks volumes.
 

franklin

New Member
I think I would agree with Lee about power requirement for a Vaderstad.

Cat 55 on 6m system tyne Vaderstad drilling linseed into subsoiled stubbles, and that pretty much killed it on the tougher stuff. Never had the levelling board in use as on our clart it just doesnt like it. It would be better with a front packer in my view, but still a nice drill.
 

Clive

Staff Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lichfield
the clue with a rapid is in the name ! you need to pull them fast and to do that you need a lot of power - 50hp/m really IMO
 

Robigus

Member
We have had a 4m rapid since 2001. When we first bought it we only had 145 hp to pull it ( and had a demo on that tractor), but knew that we were going to change for a bigger tractor the following year. 145 hp was adequate with out any silly hills. Then put 170 hp on it and it was never a problem.

The thing about Vaderstads and the wet is a bit confusing. What they hate is loose ground, wet and loose is a complete disaster. If the ground is firmed / well packed in front of them, before it gets wet, they will run surprisingly well.

We have just changed to a strip till drill and are selling off a lot of kit, (Please see Farmers Guide and sales on here shortly;),) and the only thing that I will miss is the Vadestad because it has been such a good tool.
 

Elmsted

Never Forgotten
Honorary Member
Location
Bucharest
We have had a 4m rapid since 2001. When we first bought it we only had 145 hp to pull it, but knew that we were going to change for a bigger tractor the following year. 145 hp was adequate with out any silly hills. Then put 170 hp on it and it was never a problem.

The thing about Vaderstads and the wet is a bit confusing. What they hate is loose ground, wet and loose is a complete disaster. If the ground is firmed / well packed in front of them, before it gets wet, they will run surprisingly well.

We have just changed to a strip till drill and are selling off a lot of kit, (Please see Farmers Guide and sales on here shortly;),) and the only thing that I will miss is the Vadestad because it has been such a good tool.

Well keep the vaddy. As sure as heck a 2001 vaddy owes you nought and your strip till might not always be the solution
 

Elmsted

Never Forgotten
Honorary Member
Location
Bucharest
I have run 4 and 8 metre vaddy rapids with discs form around that era new afore they got here secondhand what value please and also agree the leveling paddles best consigned to the storage area of nettles.
 

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