Valtra vs Massey Vs Fendt

vantage

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Pembs
on a different brand
a neighbour has a venerei loader fitted with a 4 cyl perkins engine
made in japan
are they common?
I thought Venerei were Italian, I’m sure one of my contractors had a Case 421, which was a rebadged Venerei. Or was the Perkins Japanese made?
 

Wellytrack

Member
A couple of years ago @Pheasant Surprise remarked that a completely new SISU diesel was being developed. It’s probably a couple of years away yet, but a motor like that would likely replace the current 500 and 700 series.
 

Cowabunga

Member
Location
Ceredigion,Wales
I'm not

I'm not aware of Perkins being bought over or doing anything else apart from engines...
Smallest three and four cylinder Perkins, as used in JCB mini-diggers, are license built or rebadged ISM engines, as used by New Holland skid steer loaders. The somewhat larger Perkins series are re-badged Iveco/CNH engines. The mainstream Perkins/Caterpillar engines that have mainly disappeared from new agricultural machinery this Century are UK built at Peterborough.

Perkins has been a division of Caterpillar since 1998 of course. For four years before that it was owned by Lucas-Varity, which was a complicated entity made up of the remnants of the Massey Ferguson holding company and Lucas. Before that, from around 1948 [I think] to 1994, it was part of Massey Ferguson, or its created holding company in latter years, the Varity Corporation under the control of the notorious Conrad Black [Barron Black of Crossharbour] who’s Argus Corporation owned Hollinger International [including the Telegraph] until he was convicted and jailed for fraud in the USA. Argus owned Massey Ferguson well before Varity Corporation was formed to asset strip the loss making Massey Ferguson, formerly Massey-Harris-Ferguson and just Massey-Harris.
 

Cowabunga

Member
Location
Ceredigion,Wales
A couple of years ago @Pheasant Surprise remarked that a completely new SISU diesel was being developed. It’s probably a couple of years away yet, but a motor like that would likely replace the current 500 and 700 series.
Yes there is a new range of Sisu engines on the way that will be far quieter and therefore be road as well as off-road legal and useful. About time too! Large truck engines are whisper-quiet now compared to last century models.
From the UK New Vehicle Certification Agency [I have made relevant sections bold]...
The external noise emitted by passenger cars has been controlled since 1929 when the Motor Cars (Excessive Noise) regulations were introduced. New cars are now required to meet Europe-wide noise limits. These have been progressively reduced from 82 decibels (dB (A)) in 1978 to the current limit of 72 dB (A) established in 2016. Information on the level of noise recorded for new models of cars at their type approval test is also listed in the data table.

When looking at this information please note that off-road vehicles are allowed to be 1dB (A) louder and wheelchair accessible vehicles or armoured vehicles are allowed to be 2 dB (A) louder.

The noise levels quoted above are the maximum levels that are permitted for new vehicle types. Many vehicles produce lower levels of noise, and it is illegal to modify the exhaust system of a vehicle to make it noisier than the level recorded for that model at type approval.

A new EU regulation was introduced from July 2016. Regulation (EU) No 540/2014, phases in tighter noise limits over 10 years, together with a revised, more representative test procedure. By 2026 the limit for most new passenger cars will be 68 dB(A).

It is worth noting that a 3dB increase is a doubling of power/energy but that 10dB is a doubling of sound perceived by the human ear. So today’s new trucks have less than half the noise level at a certain distance away compared to last century’s trucks. From 2026 the legal limit is yet quieter, although most cars already meet that. In fact on cars and on electric cars without exception, the tyres are the noise-limiting factor nowadays not the engine. Farm tractors and machinery engines have a long long way to go to match even today’s trucks let alone cars. But this, as much as emissions controls and fuel economy is what is forcing a new generation of medium and heavy duty Diesel engines to be developed and fitted.
 
Last edited:

Wellytrack

Member
Yes there is a new range of Sisu engines on the way that will be far quieter and therefore be road as well as off-road legal and useful. About time too! Large truck engines are whisper-quiet now compared to last century models.
From the UK New Vehicle Certification Agency [I have made relevant sections bold]...


It is worth noting that a 3dB increase is a doubling of power/energy but that 10dB is a doubling of sound perceived by the human ear. So today’s new trucks have less than half the noise level at a certain distance away compared to last century’s trucks. From 2026 the legal limit is yet quieter, although most cars already meet that. In fact on cars and on electric cars without exception, the tyres are the noise-limiting factor nowadays not the engine. Farm tractors and machinery engines have a long long way to go to match even today’s trucks let alone cars. But this, as much as emissions controls and fuel economy is what is forcing a new generation of medium and heavy duty Diesel engines to be developed and fitted.

Modern engines I find are very quiet. No evidence at all but recent John Deere’s I thought were very quiet indeed.
 

Cowabunga

Member
Location
Ceredigion,Wales
Modern engines I find are very quiet. No evidence at all but recent John Deere’s I thought were very quiet indeed.
Each new generation is getting quieter now. They are not doing this voluntarily of course, any more than they lowered emissions voluntarily. They need to meet sensible regulations and the fact that they do meet them is proof that they can and could. I mean, the drive-by noise from my tier3 Perkins exhaust on the MF5445 is nothing short of ridiculous. Obviously a good silencer would benefit it but even so these, like nearly all tractor engines, are ridiculously noisy. At least they’d moved on from the old Ford Series10 engines that made windows that they passed rattle.
When they become as quiet as current Scania truck engines it will be time to rejoice. Tractor cabs will then justify a Harman Kardon hi-fi sound system.
 

Wellytrack

Member
Each new generation is getting quieter now. They are not doing this voluntarily of course, any more than they lowered emissions voluntarily. They need to meet sensible regulations and the fact that they do meet them is proof that they can and could. I mean, the drive-by noise from my tier3 Perkins exhaust on the MF5445 is nothing short of ridiculous. Obviously a good silencer would benefit it but even so these, like nearly all tractor engines, are ridiculously noisy. At least they’d moved on from the old Ford Series10 engines that made windows that they passed rattle.
When they become as quiet as current Scania truck engines it will be time to rejoice. Tractor cabs will then justify a Harman Kardon hi-fi sound system.

5400’s were ridiculous. 61,62,42 and 43 were quieter.

Tractors are quieter but they have also lost some character. Everyone remembers how good tractors used to sound without being ear splitting too.
 

SFI - What % were you taking out of production?

  • 0 %

    Votes: 80 42.3%
  • Up to 25%

    Votes: 66 34.9%
  • 25-50%

    Votes: 30 15.9%
  • 50-75%

    Votes: 3 1.6%
  • 75-100%

    Votes: 3 1.6%
  • 100% I’ve had enough of farming!

    Votes: 7 3.7%

Red Tractor drops launch of green farming scheme amid anger from farmers

  • 1,293
  • 1
As reported in Independent


quote: “Red Tractor has confirmed it is dropping plans to launch its green farming assurance standard in April“

read the TFF thread here: https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/gfc-was-to-go-ahead-now-not-going-ahead.405234/
Top