Vegan threat? what vegan threat?

[farmerm]

I have lost a grazing farm due to them agreeing to host a vegan festival, shame as it was good red clover for finishing lambs. However I respect his choice, they are paying him for the land and he would be against their wishes if he also hosted a sheep meat farmer as well.
They pay a lot more than me

C B

Someone should set up a burger bar right outside the vegan festival, I bet they would make an absolute killing between 11 and 2am

 

[farmerm]

The irony is that in order to obtain sufficient essential nutrients to maintain health vegans have to eat lot more weight of food because it's much less nutrient dense. Potatoes, rice and pasta will make you much fatter than meat ever will.

Protein fills you up, carbs leave you empty...

 

[DaveGrohl]

Protein fills you up, carbs leave you empty...

Not initially they don't, and my point was that you need to eat a lot more volume to get anywhere near similar nutrients.

 

[kill]

It kind of feels like criticism of the livestock industry by vegans and vegan groups is one of the major threats to the industry, perhaps the major one that isn’t brexit related.

Vegans may be a small minority, but they appear to be very vocal and some vegan interest groups are exceedingly well funded, organised and media-savvy.

I think the threat comes from the way vegans (I presume) appear to be organised to bombard perfectly reasonable social media posts with massively negative comments, and if Facebook is now taking a dim view of livestock enterprises then that’s not a good sign. I know of folks in the livestock and meat businesses who have withdrawn from social media because of the orchestrated abuse directed at them, and also because of the threat of physical intimidation (farm pickets etc).

For a percent or two of the population, there always seems to be a massively disproportionate number of stories about veganism going about.

There’s also a lot of virtue signalling by celebs and food companies etc that doesn’t help (I never imagined shreddies contained meat or dairy anyway -why make a big deal of it?)

There’s the whole climate crisis too to feed into the condemnation of farmers; even the bbc never wastes an opportunity to link any climate story to red meat killing the planet. I think this is all tremendously unfair on probably the majority of uk farmers; we’ve always been fairly extensive farmers- long term leys with the express intention of preserving and increasing soil organic matter but it’s pointless trying to argue about it on social media- the argument is nuanced but most of the abuse meted out online is not. It is sensational and catchy though.

I took my 4year old to see Dippy the dinosaur the other week- just an empty room with the skeleton and a few posters/projections on the back wall. Weirdly out of the relatively few bits of data presented, there were two ‘facts’ telling visitors that meat and/or dairy are killing the planet!!!???

So I think this is building into a movement that effectively stifles opposing views in the mainstream and particularly social media. I suspect the impact will be greatest on the young (the most prolific users of social media). The aim is clearly to continually give and reinforce the message that meat/dairy is wrong and if young and impressionable people are told something often enough they probably will end up believing it. I hope I’m wrong, but you can kind of see meat eating heading into the same sort of acceptability category as cigarette smoking or drink driving.

And School teacher's can be the worst offender's as kids are very impressionable.

 

[Muck Spreader]

Our Dog lives on Pig Pellets. She can run behind the tractor all day when ploughing with no problems

Dogs need a certain level animal derived proteins to have a long healthy life, it's just a fact.

 

[Still Farming]

https://www.facebook.com/45093379305/posts/10157976250529306

 

[Ball acre]

 

[Hampton]

Had three friends up from London earlier this week for a shoot day. Went for a meal in pub the night before and two of them had the vegan curry. They then proceeded to wax lyrical about the vegan diet (only part time though) a documentary called game changers and then a 3.5 interview between the guy who presented game changers (apparently an ex school friend ufc fighter called Wilko?) and joe rogan.
The one was telling me how the cage fighter had schooled the yanks and how vegan was far more healthy.
I was caught on the hop but explained what we did and how it was different to feedlot US beef and how that show being American based wasn’t entirely relevant to what they would get from local butchers.
Watched a bit of interview since, and although fighting guy is very slick, motivated and knowledgeable, only some of his claims have credence some claims are total nonsense/propaganda

 

[Ball acre]

 

[Ball acre]

I thought all chickens were vegetarian these days. Something smells fishy here..

 

[DaveGrohl]

Had three friends up from London earlier this week for a shoot day. Went for a meal in pub the night before and two of them had the vegan curry. They then proceeded to wax lyrical about the vegan diet (only part time though) a documentary called game changers and then a 3.5 interview between the guy who presented game changers (apparently an ex school friend ufc fighter called Wilko?) and joe rogan.
The one was telling me how the cage fighter had schooled the yanks and how vegan was far more healthy.
I was caught on the hop but explained what we did and how it was different to feedlot US beef and how that show being American based wasn’t entirely relevant to what they would get from local butchers.
Watched a bit of interview since, and although fighting guy is very slick, motivated and knowledgeable, only some of his claims have credence some claims are total nonsense/propaganda

I'm almost finished the Wilks v Kresser podcast now (having listened to the Kresser garotting of Gamechangers). Gotta say it's hard going. Wilks is succeeding in bullying Kresser with his overly aggressive delivery but he really isn't making a convincing case for himself. He is very much defending his film and is undestandably angry about being called out about the overall slant of the film. The problem is that he is picking the tiniest holes in some of Kresser's sentences from the previous podcast rather than addressing the actual problems with his own arguements. Also he is talking soo fast it's difficult to comprehend every word he is saying, there's no time to process.

It's glaringly obvious to the listener that Kresser is just wishing he would go away, he's clearly intimidated by Wilks' shouting at him, he's a UFC fighter after all among other things. This does not convince the intelligent listener. His opening refusal to see that he was calling black white over dairy sets the tone for the rest of the podcast. What is puzzling is that Rogan seems to be swayed by Wilks' ranting and brow beating. Clearly being in the room is different from listening at a safe distance. Rogan saying that Wilks "knocked B12 out of the park" is just laughable. The upshot was that vegans should take supplements, as opposed to Kresser's arguement that it's difficult for the average consumer to remain healthy on a pure vegan diet.

Next podcast I'm gonna listen to is the Brian Sanders dissection of the Wilks v Kresser "debate". Talk about disappearing down a rabbit hole lol.

Btw I really wouldn't recommend anyone follows me down the rabbit hole, these podcasts are looooong and need to be listened to over a period of days to maintain enough attention.

 

[Hampton]

I'm almost finished the Wilks v Kresser podcast now (having listened to the Kresser garotting of Gamechangers). Gotta say it's hard going. Wilks is succeeding in bullying Kresser with his overly aggressive delivery but he really isn't making a convincing case for himself. He is very much defending his film and is undestandably angry about being called out about the overall slant of the film. The problem is that he is picking the tiniest holes in some of Kresser's sentences from the previous podcast rather than addressing the actual problems with his own arguements. Also he is talking soo fast it's difficult to comprehend every word he is saying, there's no time to process.

It's glaringly obvious to the listener that Kresser is just wishing he would go away, he's clearly intimidated by Wilks' shouting at him, he's a UFC fighter after all among other things. This does not convince the intelligent listener. His opening refusal to see that he was calling black white over dairy sets the tone for the rest of the podcast. What is puzzling is that Rogan seems to be swayed by Wilks' ranting and brow beating. Clearly being in the room is different from listening at a safe distance. Rogan saying that Wilks "knocked B12 out of the park" is just laughable. The upshot was that vegans should take supplements, as opposed to Kresser's arguement that it's difficult for the average consumer to remain healthy on a pure vegan diet.

Next podcast I'm gonna listen to is the Brian Sanders dissection of the Wilks v Kresser "debate". Talk about disappearing down a rabbit hole lol.

Btw I really wouldn't recommend anyone follows me down the rabbit hole, these podcasts are looooong and need to be listened to over a period of days to maintain enough attention.

The beginning does set the tone, and wilks comments on Kressers interpretation of the dairy/cancer trials is patently ridiculous. However, his comments on B12 do have merit. The weak part of Wilks argument on B12 is that supplements are cheap (he claims $2 per year!) and despite trying to get the trials paid for by meat industry thrown out as biased, he makes no reference to trials on supplements which are clearly paid for by the supplement industry!
If I’m honest the best bit is the period between 1hr 40 mins and 1hr 50 mins where Rogan gets Wilks to admit that a quality meat inclusive diet is good for you, even though he tries to maintain that meat is bad for you.

 

[honeyend]

This comes from a paper that talks about the need for dietary protien in the elderly. I love the fact that that who ever writes these papers, no mattter how they twist and turn, they can not get around the fact that meat is the easiest way to provide a balanced diet, in a nutriant dense form without supplementation, and probabbely the most available to the majority of the population at a reasonable price in a form that is appetising.

'Furthermore, the food industry would need to address the product design challenge related to the incorporation of the required amount of 25–30 g of high-quality plant proteins into one meal. To maximise the benefits of the natural food matrix, this would need to be achieved while preserving a sensible volume size, and preferably without the use of isolates and concentrates. Lastly, it would be worthwhile to assess which sustainable (yet nutritious) protein sources would be most feasible to grow and produce in the UK. Wheat and barley are one of the most commonly grown crops in Britain [120]. Schoeder and colleagues [121] compared the effect of barley, rice and wheat on appetite and found that while no significant differences were observed in terms of subsequent energy intake, a high-fiber barley snack significantly reduced hunger sensation in comparison to rice and wheat. Soy proteins were the most extensively studied type of vegetarian protein and other types of plant proteins have not been yet thoroughly investigated.'

Protein for Life: Review of Optimal Protein Intake, Sustainable Dietary Sources and the Effect on Appetite in Ageing Adults

With an ageing population, dietary approaches to promote health and independence later in life are needed. In part, this can be achieved by maintaining muscle mass and strength as people age. New evidence suggests that current dietary recommendations ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

There is more than B12 they would have to supplement, and vegan forms are likely to be expensive.

 

[Hampton]

Veganuary 2020 off to a flying start

Veganuary's crowdfunding campaign for the first pro-vegan TV advert has exceeded its goal to raise £40,000. A 30 second advert is earmarked to run on TV

www.talkingretail.com

 

[delilah]

Veganuary 2020 off to a flying start

Veganuary's crowdfunding campaign for the first pro-vegan TV advert has exceeded its goal to raise £40,000. A 30 second advert is earmarked to run on TV

www.talkingretail.com

Never mind crowdfunding, the UK livestock industry could find £40k down the back of the sofa for a similar TV advert if it were so minded.

https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/countering-veganuary.305496/

 

[Hampton]

Never mind crowdfunding, the UK livestock industry could find £40k down the back of the sofa for a similar TV advert if it were so minded.

https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/countering-veganuary.305496/

Totally agree.
If that’s all it costs then they have no excuse

 

[delilah]

Totally agree.
If that’s all it costs then they have no excuse

Countering veganism and promoting UK agriculture has never been about a lack of money. It's commitment, and an understanding of the new world order, there is a paucity of.

 

[Steevo]

Wasn't sure which thread to resurrect to put this article...

Meatless Farm lays off all staff and faces bankruptcy - Farmers Weekly

Plant-based food manufacturer Meatless Farm is facing bankruptcy after being unable to attract new investment. All of the company’s 50 staff based at its

www.fwi.co.uk

 

[slackjawedyokel]

Not really surprising; in the studio photos for that sort of stuff, where it’s meant to look super appetising, it looks like catfood.

Hopefully more folks are cottoning on to the NO TO UPFS message!