Vegan trend - all bad ? or maybe there are positives ?

Shep

Member
We all know that veganism will not work on a large scale, not without massive population reductions, the young educated and "woke" are being led like sheep and are trying to cut off the branch that they are sitting on.
 

Suckndiesel

Member
Location
Newtownards
Fair enough, nutritional and taste needs can be met though the meal he made. But what about the environmental impact of that dish, ingredients from all over the world needing transport, and to scale up the soya production for the tofu will need a bit more of the amazon to be cut down.
The vegetables will need some muck on the ground in order to maintain soil fertility, as will the ground for the wheat in the seitan. Leaving it being either a mining of resources leaving a barren, infertile wasteland where the next generation cannot produce enough to feed themselves, or not truly vegan.
So is it good for the environment, not to me it isn't. A locally produced meal will have a far smaller environmental impact. Like a local roast chicken dinner, chicken litter to grow the veg, spuds, carrots, green beans. All grown close to home in the UK. Local food is the way forward for me.

I suppose they can argue, that the food miles are already used to transport the soya for animals here so would be better used for human consumption. What way do you argue against that?

They do like to go on a lot about the meal fed to animals but as far as I’m aware a fair proportion of it are byproducts and are unsuitable for human consumption.
 

Pilatus

Member
Location
cotswolds
Apart from cotton clothes,do vegans only where clothes and footwear only made from man made synthetic materials,made by the petroleum chemical industry there by helping to pollute the atmosphere a bit more:rolleyes::rolleyes::scratchhead::scratchhead:
 

Crofter64

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Quebec, Canada
I’m not advocating it for a moment - just curious to understand it more and no better way than trying it I guess !

Someone whose tried it is surely better placed to argue against it from a position of knowlage ?

As in my first post is it really something to fear ?
I give up meat entirely for Lent each year. As we getcloser to Easter I start to think of hamburgers more and more. I’ve also done strict diets for health reasons. They worked but life had no flavour. Many of our nieces and nephews have become vegetarians/ vegans. They don’t listen to what I say about regenerative farming ,they are too in love with their own moral superiority- i.e “I don’t kill animals and I am saving the planet” . I asked my Osteopath about this veganism - I said India has a mostly vegetarian culture and seems to mange .She is totally aware of all the new trends in alternative health , and answered the following. Firstly Indians know how to soak legumes and combine foods to make them tasty and nourishing ( not pasta every night) which takes a lot of time and secondly you don’t hear of too many Indians winning the Olympics. Our culture has become a sitting culture. cars, computers, sofas. What do we need strength for? Weak food for a weak people.
 

Crofter64

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Quebec, Canada
I suppose they can argue, that the food miles are already used to transport the soya for animals here so would be better used for human consumption. What way do you argue against that?

They do like to go on a lot about the meal fed to animals but as far as I’m aware a fair proportion of it are byproducts and are unsuitable for human consumption.
Soya is really a toxin. It was first introduced as a leguminous rotation to vary continuous corn growing . It had no market, however, so they started to feed it to animals as a protein source and peddled it to health food stores as well. From there is grew into the mainstream because it needed to. They had to have a market for it. The deforestation of parts of the Amazon rainforest is the result. Corn and Beans- They will destroy everything . Its the only thing grown around here.The US used ro have a huge stockpile of corn- they couldn’t give it away to third world countries fast enough. Now it has all been turned into Ethanol . Now we grow corn mostly for ethanol not people or even cattle.
 
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egbert

Member
Livestock Farmer
I give up meat entirely for Lent each year. As we getcloser to Easter I start to think of hamburgers more and more. I’ve also done strict diets for health reasons. They worked but life had no flavour. Many of our nieces and nephews have become vegetarians/ vegans. They don’t listen to what I say about regenerative farming ,they are too in love with their own moral superiority- i.e “I don’t kill animals and I am saving the planet” . I asked my Osteopath about this veganism - I said India has a mostly vegetarian culture and seems to mange .She is totally aware of all the new trends in alternative health , and answered the following. Firstly Indians know how to soak legumes and combine foods to make them tasty and nourishing ( not pasta every night) which takes a lot of time and secondly you don’t hear of too many Indians winning the Olympics. Our culture has become a sitting culture. cars, computers, sofas. What do we need strength for? Weak food for a weak people.

Straying off topic....
(and I'm not really wanting to venture down the rabbit hole)....but is the shortage of Olympiad Indians really due to diet?
Surely it's a reflection of a typically different stature/metabolism/physiology?
If not, wouldn't we have as many British Indian runners (etc), as we have of African descent?
(Jeez but it's a difficult subject to discuss without causing offence)

Just sayin'
 

Crofter64

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Quebec, Canada
Straying off topic....
(and I'm not really wanting to venture down the rabbit hole)....but is the shortage of Olympiad Indians really due to diet?
Surely it's a reflection of a typically different stature/metabolism/physiology?
If not, wouldn't we have as many British Indian runners (etc), as we have of African descent?
(Jeez but it's a difficult subject to discuss without causing offence)

Just sayin'
I agree, its tricky. I was unsure about whether to post but I think my osteopath put that out more as a comment on a vegetarian diet rather than on a whole culture. It all started because I asked her about my brother in law, a former raw food advocate for twenty years ,who has a lot of digestive issues and was always weak. I asked if they were related to his vegetarian/raw diet and she saidyes, completely.
 

JP1

Member
Livestock Farmer
Farmer holds banner while passing protestors.

Image taken outside Norwich Livestock Market yesterday.

49897700_784504155238834_6484291007864111104_n.jpg
 

mo!

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
York
Straying off topic....
(and I'm not really wanting to venture down the rabbit hole)....but is the shortage of Olympiad Indians really due to diet?
Surely it's a reflection of a typically different stature/metabolism/physiology?
If not, wouldn't we have as many British Indian runners (etc), as we have of African descent?
(Jeez but it's a difficult subject to discuss without causing offence)

Just sayin'
I would imagine that it has more to do with funding than anything else. Are Australians more successful in the pool because they are descended from convicts or because they have a reputation for swimming and therefore a history of funding at all levels. It used to be said that Africans couldn't swim because they had "heavy bones" but it has far more to do with the lack of expensive public baths.

Kenyans, Ethiopians etc have history of long distance running and high altitudes to train and it is a low financial input sport. You don't even need a pair of running shoes.
 

egbert

Member
Livestock Farmer
I would imagine that it has more to do with funding than anything else. Are Australians more successful in the pool because they are descended from convicts or because they have a reputation for swimming and therefore a history of funding at all levels. It used to be said that Africans couldn't swim because they had "heavy bones" but it has far more to do with the lack of expensive public baths.

Kenyans, Ethiopians etc have history of long distance running and high altitudes to train and it is a low financial input sport. You don't even need a pair of running shoes.

Cobblers -with respect.

Are you saying UK Afro-Caribbean (if I'm allowed to use that label) athletes only come from areas where there's no municipal pool?
Or that Brits here with Indian/Asian subcontinent heritage don't have the same opportunities as other groups?
(there might be cultural reasons pushing them to mostly cricket, or not into sport at all- I know not)

Australians appear to be more successful in lots of sports, and it appears to be a mix of cultural/nutritional factors, and being in a very rich country.

Why, following your logic, aren't there lots of Peruvian, Tibetan, Nepalese and Bolivian marathon runners?

I want to be very clear, I'm neutral in my personal regard to such matters...I care not one jot what anyone's ethnic background might be.
However, I consider it a retrograde step to try and tip toe round the obvious.
 

Pilatus

Member
Location
cotswolds
I see in today Sunday Times the Michael Gove is promoting Veganism as way to dramatically reduce Co2 emissions.
Will he carry on and tell people that they should also only wear clothes and footwear made of cotton or man made fibres produces from oil so there fore adding to pollution of the atmosphere.:banghead::banghead:
 
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mo!

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
York
Cobblers -with respect.

Are you saying UK Afro-Caribbean (if I'm allowed to use that label) athletes only come from areas where there's no municipal pool?
Or that Brits here with Indian/Asian subcontinent heritage don't have the same opportunities as other groups?
(there might be cultural reasons pushing them to mostly cricket, or not into sport at all- I know not)

Australians appear to be more successful in lots of sports, and it appears to be a mix of cultural/nutritional factors, and being in a very rich country.

Why, following your logic, aren't there lots of Peruvian, Tibetan, Nepalese and Bolivian marathon runners?

I want to be very clear, I'm neutral in my personal regard to such matters...I care not one jot what anyone's ethnic background might be.
However, I consider it a retrograde step to try and tip toe round the obvious.
I think you've missed the point. There are lots of British Black footballers, because they have British Black role models, the opposite is true of Peruvian runners. The Nepalese have enough going on without competing in sport etc etc. Why have the Russians been so good at the shot put *and* gymnastics? Not national genetics but a concerted effort to win at particular disciplines. Yes we have lots of British Indian cricketers, might colonialism have something to do with that?
 

egbert

Member
Livestock Farmer
I think you've missed the point. There are lots of British Black footballers, because they have British Black role models, the opposite is true of Peruvian runners. The Nepalese have enough going on without competing in sport etc etc. Why have the Russians been so good at the shot put *and* gymnastics? Not national genetics but a concerted effort to win at particular disciplines. Yes we have lots of British Indian cricketers, might colonialism have something to do with that?

Absolute garbage old fella.
Brit born African descent players making it because they've got role models? No. It's because they can.
Anyway, I thought football here is stuffed with players from overseas, who grew up in poor countries, and come here to play.
And i'll wager it;s the money and lifestyle which has brought them, not role models.

Are you telling me that Ethiopian and N Kenyan marathon runners succeed because they've got more time on their hands than those from Nepal?
Or that it's never occurred to a Peruvian to run fast?
The altitude certainly seems to be an element, but it's hard to read it any other way than that there are people in that area who're given to be able to run long distances faster than the rest of us.

Soviet Union era Russian gymnasts were taken as kids and put through damaging extreme training to satisfy national honour - I believe it's well documented.
As for their shot putters and the like, i couldn't tell you why it was a sport they've done well in. (i'm really not very interested in sports)
I recall there was -and still is- plenty of allegations about russian athlete performing 'unexpectedly well' in some disciplines.
i suspect it's nothing to do with race - the racial diversity within the Russian Federation -if thats what they're called now- is notably significant.

Of course Indians proclivity toward cricket is cultural .

If you want to cling to some idea that there are no physiological differences between races, that's your privilege I suppose.

PS A fella i know had a long and successful career training folk to a very particular high level of fitness.
And despite the organisation he worked for being absolutely committed to 'inclusive' policy, he assured me that some ethnic groups adapted to the training very much better than others.
To the extent that almost none came from one group i won't identify. It was as simple as that, and his job had to be blind to it looking from both angles.
(and it was nothing to do with swimming, or being able to run fast...)
 

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