Vertical Farming

[Chris F]

I heard a speaker recently on this and he detailed the economics of getting salad to New York and the ridiculous carbon footprint it caused travelling 1000s of miles and then wasn't even fresh when it got there. He then explained more about vertical farming. Its a fascinating process - all indoors, so must consume lots of electricity although it seems modern advancements in LED tech have helped. I since found out one of my friends is doing this on farm in Oxfordshire on a smaller scale.

This is worth a read about a company doing just this near New York:

https://www.thejakartapost.com/life/2019/02/25/tech-connection-boosts-new-york-vertical-farmers.html

Lower electricity costs

Vertical farming has long been practiced in Japan and some other places but it did not take off in the United States until recent technological leaps made it viable.

A key component has been LED bulbs, which have enabled indoor farmers to drastically cut electricity costs.

But Bowery is also making heavy use of robotics and artificial intelligence to keep prices under control.

The combination of these newer tools "is how we really rethink what agriculture will look like in the next century and beyond," Fain said.

Here is a video of inside a vertical farm:

I'm still left wondering what this food actually tastes like though.

 

[Beowulf]

My daughter's school are doing this as part of a national competition of some kind. They are growing various salad leaves using hydroponics and artificial lighting, with organic waste being used as a source of nutrients.

I did mention that my friends used to practice horticulture in a similar way when we were teenagers, but that got me "the look" from Mrs Beowulf.

 

[Bald Rick]

I see the floating farm in Rotterdam harbour is now up and running. Interesting concept, chuffing expensive I would think

Home

Visit the post for more.

floatingfarm.nl

 

[Will Wilson]

https://www.nuffieldscholar.org/news/sarah-hughes-report-published/

file:///C:/Users/wwilson/Downloads/Sarah-Hughes-Vertical%20Farming%20does%20the%20economic%20model%20work.pdf

I would be happy to invest with someone else's money.

 

[Chris F]

https://www.nuffieldscholar.org/news/sarah-hughes-report-published/

file:///C:/Users/wwilson/Downloads/Sarah-Hughes-Vertical%20Farming%20does%20the%20economic%20model%20work.pdf

I would be happy to invest with someone else's money.

Don't think you need to Will - the VC's are all over this along with insect farming.

 

[steveR]

I had a long and very interesting conversation at the NEC last year at the Innovations Show. Some very clever work being done with different types of LED lighting to tweak plant growth and performance, often in Tunnels as well as container growing.

Huge quantities of cannabis being grown using the same techniques, with the bonus of less power being needed than traditional grow lamps

 

[DrWazzock]

I had a bit of vertical farming today. A Limmy steer climbed a cattle hurdle and ended up stood on his back legs with his front legs over the top rail. Fortunately he decided to come back down to the horizontal after thinking about it for half a minute.

 

[RushesToo]

I heard a speaker recently on this and he detailed the economics of getting salad to New York and the ridiculous carbon footprint it caused travelling 1000s of miles and then wasn't even fresh when it got there.
.......
I'm still left wondering what this food actually tastes like though.

What it tastes like isn't what is important. *
They _currently_ have no insect or fungal problems**

Observations are this is fashion not economics. nor argirculture There is money in it now but you shouldn't forget this is a fashion, the price will become important when more have rushed in.

*This is about Kudos not food
** It's a monoculture, - the elocutionary pressures are enormous, soon they will require chems.

 

[Chris F]

What it tastes like isn't what is important. *
They _currently_ have no insect or fungal problems**

Observations are this is fashion not economics. nor argirculture There is money in it now but you shouldn't forget this is a fashion, the price will become important when more have rushed in.

*This is about Kudos not food
** It's a monoculture, - the elocutionary pressures are enormous, soon they will require chems.

The thing that strikes me is can it ever be sustainable? It’s not using free energy from the sun. Although I suppose there could be solar panels on the roof generating electric.

 

[DrWazzock]

It's being developed by a lecturer friend at Hull Sixth form college as a means of allowing landless disaffected urban youth to gain a small stake in food production. LED lighting and hydroponics is being used to produce chilli peppers. Anything like that which increases the populations knowledge and understanding of food production is a good thing IMO. Whether it is sustainable or economic is a different matter.

 

[Beowulf]

The thing that strikes me is can it ever be sustainable? It’s not using free energy from the sun. Although I suppose there could be solar panels on the roof generating electric.

We shouldn't ge too caught up in the 100% sustainable thing. The question should really be, is it more sustainable than the status quo?

It might use a lot of electricity, but how does it compare to trucking the same product from southern Europe, or worse still flying it from Africa or South America?

 

[RushesToo]

The thing that strikes me is can it ever be sustainable? It’s not using free energy from the sun. Although I suppose there could be solar panels on the roof generating electric.

Nope, it can't be sustainable, they only get the sun on the roof they get - they have to split this to 5 layers of plants. The cost of PV has to be less than pulling it off the grid. They have the capital cost of installation, power lifts to get to the plants - and I could go on.

The cost of production of plants in a city verses plant in a poly tunnel outside the town? This is fashion not business - it will be successful but will need to re-invent itself. I would put money on allowing THC production in the state before too long. THIS would attract VC money.

 

[topground]

Unless the plants they grow in this system are pollinated and run to seed which is then harvested to grow subsequent crops any talk of sustainability is disingenuous.

 

[Chris F]

Nope, it can't be sustainable, they only get the sun on the roof they get - they have to split this to 5 layers of plants. The cost of PV has to be less than pulling it off the grid. They have the capital cost of installation, power lifts to get to the plants - and I could go on.

The cost of production of plants in a city verses plant in a poly tunnel outside the town? This is fashion not business - it will be successful but will need to re-invent itself. I would put money on allowing THC production in the state before too long. THIS would attract VC money.

That is my thought too, can never be sustainable - however they can have a lower carbon footprint than growing it 1000-2000 miles away. people are eating things they shouldn't really eat. So if they lower the carbon footprint of farming is that not good?

 

[steveR]

The thing that strikes me is can it ever be sustainable? It’s not using free energy from the sun. Although I suppose there could be solar panels on the roof generating electric.

That is indeed what they do.

However, the crops being grown in these systems HAS to be a very high value crop. Herbs and speciality salad crops are the only things to justify the capital costs was what I was told by the makers of the LED/container systems.

 

[steveR]

I had a bit of vertical farming today. A Limmy steer climbed a cattle hurdle and ended up stood on his back legs with his front legs over the top rail. Fortunately he decided to come back down to the horizontal after thinking about it for half a minute.

Thought the "climbing" strain had been bred out of Limmies now....!!

 

[renewablejohn]

The thing that strikes me is can it ever be sustainable? It’s not using free energy from the sun. Although I suppose there could be solar panels on the roof generating electric.

Yes it can be sustainable using light tubes rather than electric. Have been growing crops here under shade netting for a number of years and have had good results using light tubes. Certainly 4 levels and maybe 5 levels should be feasible.

 

[Chris F]

Yes it can be sustainable using light tubes rather than electric. Have been growing crops here under shade netting for a number of years and have had good results using light tubes. Certainly 4 levels and maybe 5 levels should be feasible.

So those tubes are re-directed light? Not light bulbs as we know them.

 

[Kiwi Pete]

The thing that strikes me is can it ever be sustainable? It’s not using free energy from the sun. Although I suppose there could be solar panels on the roof generating electric.

It's too lossy, when you put it like that.
How efficient is PV, and although LEDs are quite efficient, they'd still be better to put the plant's leaves on the roof, IMO

or, shock horror, put them in the ground
I play with growing field mushrooms in the basement, works well, and also toyed with the idea of sprouting grain in a vertical system for a bit of "fresh" for the housed cattle.
Didn't do it, but investigated the concept.

But a 50% efficient light times a 20% efficient PV array seems as if the first 10 stories are "a waste" IYSWIM?

 

[renewablejohn]

So those tubes are re-directed light? Not light bulbs as we know them.

This is the type of light tube I am talking about. They just redirect sunlight but can incorporate electric light as well so you can adjust daylight hours for plant growth/flowering.

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