Vets against docking and castrating of lambs

[unlacedgecko]

Castrating and tail docking lambs should be 'last resort' - Farmers Weekly

Lambs should only be castrated or tail docked as a last resort in a bid to improve animal welfare, leading vets have told farmers. In a new position

www.fwi.co.uk

 

[Ysgythan]

rubbish.

 

[Ysgythan]

No not rubbish, I said bollokcs...

 

[Northeastfarmer]

I think not castrating them brings greater welfare problems than castrating them

 

[MRT]

Hmmm. Well, on one hand they have a point. Why tail and castrate early lambs that are going to be pushed on creep? On the other, the BVA do like to tell people what to think which is why I am not a member anymore.

 

[unlacedgecko]

I think not castrating them brings greater welfare problems than castrating them

Quite possibly. But vet opinion is that doing is without pain relief is unacceptable.

Numnuts | Targeted pain relief | Tail docking and castration | Lamb Marking

More than 100 million lambs are castrated and tail docked each year. Numnuts® is a product for alleviating the pain when lambs during lamb marking and sheep tailing

numnuts.store

How long before use of the above for castrations and tail docking becomes a part of Farm Assurance/legislation?

 

[Northeastfarmer]

Quite possibly. But vet opinion is that doing is without pain relief is unacceptable.

Numnuts | Targeted pain relief | Tail docking and castration | Lamb Marking

More than 100 million lambs are castrated and tail docked each year. Numnuts® is a product for alleviating the pain when lambs during lamb marking and sheep tailing

numnuts.store

How long before use of the above for castrations and tail docking becomes a part of Farm Assurance/legislation?

And who will police it? Will they send an officer round daily at lambing time?

 

[unlacedgecko]

And who will police it? Will they send an officer round daily at lambing time?

No.


But at FA inspections you would need to produce receipts for an amount of local anaesthetic equal to the amount of lambs you produce. As ever, I suspect the paperwork will be more important than the act.

 

[Jackov Altraids]

So.........

I believe farming and vets have made a huge leap forward in being pro-active and putting time and money into plans to help prevent issues arriving in the first place. I'm quite happy to pay for my annual reviews and feel monitoring outcomes is positive for all.
This feels like an attempt to help vets incomes rather than address a welfare issue. They don't make anything from the use of rubber rings.
A simple cheap procedure with a little bit of short term discomfort is not good for businesses other than farmers. Anything else would mean more veterinary procedures, welfare issues and/or use of insecticides which can be very harmful to soils.
What do slaughterhouses do with testicles and tails?....... If they are used it may not be an issue but if they go for incineration then its not good for the environment either.

 

[tr250]

How many abattoirs actually take entire lambs? where we take ours don’t want them

 

[yellowbelly]

Just another added cost to an already overburdened industry.
Lambs ringed at one or two days old feel, as @Jackov Altraids says, a little short term discomfort but are very soon up and about like nothing has happened.

I know we are talking about sheep here but in view of Brexit opening up imports/exports for beef it may be of interest to see how much pain relief is administered in an American ranch situation........

.............I'm in no way knocking these American farmers (they are working within their country's regulations), but merely pointing out that they aren't saddled with a lot of over the top rules as we are here. Level playing fields and all that

 

[celtis man]

Just another added cost to an already overburdened industry.
Lambs ringed at one or two days old feel, as @Jackov Altraids says, a little short term discomfort but are very soon up and about like nothing has happened.

I know we are talking about sheep here but in view of Brexit opening up imports/exports for beef it may be of interest to see how much pain relief is administered in an American ranch situation........

.............I'm in no way knocking these American farmers (they are working within their country's regulations), but merely pointing out that they aren't saddled with a lot of over the top rules as we are here. Level playing fields and all that

sorry those yanks are cruel

 

[BigSteve]

The profession has changed in the 30 years I've been involved.
From it's roots treating working horses and farm animals , by the 1970 & 80s most vets I knew had qualified expecting to work with a range of species .
Perhaps because of that, some general experience and knowledge of farming and/or horses was common. And people applied to become vets having had those experiences.
What my partner & I noticed in the last decade was a massive increase in the number of vets who were from rich backgrounds, and especially rich town backgrounds. No experience or connection with farming. Often no paid job or real life experience.
You could justify this by saying that new veterinary students reflect a change in the UK population: but they don't. They are hugely unrepresentative of the UK on gender (mainly female), wealth (mainly richer parents), race (mainly white), and parentage (mainly 2nd or 3rd generations university), etc
Perhaps I sound old, but this sounds like the demographic who we are told are most likely to be involved in campaigns to take pseudo-moralistic stances on socially fashionable issues.
You may be lucky enough to have a good local practice with vets who are on your side... but I worry about how much the modern (vastly small animal) veterinary profession knows or cares what happens in agriculture....

 

[honeyend]

I hate to be sexist but all the students from the local vet school tend to be very small women and have little experience of large farm animals, when they come out its just before their exams after they have done their cattle module. The blokes are bigger but very few seem to have any determination, or common sense, the animals know it so it have to be restrained chemically, which is fine but you have an extra drugs cost. I wander off and leave them to it as I get a bit twitchy, there is only so many times you can watch them trying to find a vein. I am not saying I could do better but the next stop is qualified. They are also very risk averse and want to do tests for simple injuries.
My cattle vet, well they are either Polish or Romanian. haven't seen any women and they have a robust decisive attitude, always wash down their boots and wet wear and are happy to explain anything. I tryed the very local vet who sent out someone as I wanted some advice to get a calf to suckle, a compleat waste of time and never even followed up but I got £50 fee for less than five miles travel.

 

[Estate fencing.]

I think not castrating them brings greater welfare problems than castrating them

That's exactly my opinion, rams hoggs this time of year are horrible, constantly riding each other, fighting and trying to get out to tup ewe lambs. You only have to have one get out and you have a load of in lamb ewe hoggs (much bigger issue is killing heavy in lamb sheep). 2 minutes of discomfort at 24 hours old is much better of the whole flock.

 

[Kiwi Pete]

What on earth would you be doing with ram lambs hanging around long enough to "cause unwanted pregnancies"?

Get some real sheep

 

[Northeastfarmer]

What on earth would you be doing with ram lambs hanging around long enough to "cause unwanted pregnancies"?

Get some real sheep

You’d only have to keep them up untill Christmas (April born) and they’d have your whole flock tipped

 

[Tim W]

The industry needs to move into the modern age & start promoting itself
Restricted castration & docking procedures are coming... it's best to be ahead of the game
Many EU countries don't allow/have restricted mutilation practices & we want access to these markets
Entire ram lambs require different management practices
Tail length is easy to measure & select for

The world demands better welfare standards & there is no excuse for not providing them

 

[digger64]

E="Kiwi Pete, post: 6789884, member: 63856"]
What on earth would you be doing with ram lambs hanging around long enough to "cause unwanted pregnancies"?

Get some real sheep
[/QUOTE]
Thats ok if you got some real grass , then of course there is the taint taste issue

 

[Northeastfarmer]

The industry needs to move into the modern age & start promoting itself
Restricted castration & docking procedures are coming... it's best to be ahead of the game
Many EU countries don't allow/have restricted mutilation practices & we want access to these markets
Entire ram lambs require different management practices
Tail length is easy to measure & select for

The world demands better welfare standards & there is no excuse for not providing them

I can see leaving the tail on welfare grounds but not leaving them entire...most of us don’t have the luxury of having separate fields to separate tups and gimmers plus unless you can get them away early a lot of abattoirs won’t take tups after a certain date due to taint