Vets no longer working in outlying area

[Far North Gollach]

Cost more to do a caesarian on a dog than a cow.that includes the call out fee to the farm too

My father was telling me earlier tonight that he was speaking to a cousin who had a dog that ate grapes recently, they phoned the vet and they said we'll give you a tablet to make the dog sick. Away they went down to practice, the girl behind the counter handed over tablet and said that will be £90 thank you!

Little wonder they want into small animal practices at that price, could you imagine giving a farmer a tablet for any animal on the farm and saying £90 please, I don't think it would go down well....

 

[ollie989898]

One problem is that there are too many female vets.

Nothing against female vets as we have had some very good ones.

Finish collage at 25 years old. Do vet work for 4 or 5 years, then start a family and leave the profession.

James Heriot era, it was all men that were vets until they retired or died !

It's a young people issue, it's not limited by gender. Plenty of young people train in chosen careers to a high level and then change their mind when life/family/marriage comes along. Small vet work has the Noel Supervet factor to attract new entrants. It's less onerous and you can earn some very good money, plus it's not so anti-social: you're in a practice and work in a team.

Farm animal practice, explain to me the positives? Farmer moaning every visit about the cost of X, arriving on farm to find yet another beast that should have been shot 2 days ago or seen a vet 5 days earlier. Then you have the out of hours and the old favourite, TB testing- must be every young vets dream that job, jabbing hundreds of beasts whilst avoiding a kick in the head/broken arm or leg?

The medical world and other professions, nursing in particular are seeing the exact same issues really. People qualify, do a 5 years and decide it's not worth it. It is like many things, you either 'live' for that kind of work or you don't. I'm sat here now and have to be in work early, yet I genuinely can't sleep yet because of the excitement of going to work. It's like when I was 22 and knowing I'd be given a go on the combine tomorrow.

I don't blame young people for changing their minds. The trouble is, they are pursuing these careers but often don't have any real metric or previous experience of work to compare their eventual jobs with. I've spoken with more than one consultant who has basically told me they are only in the job whilst their children are in private school, after that, they will retire or massively drop their hours as they won't need the money or the grief.

The trouble the vet world will have is that unless people become partners in their practice, their salaries reach a ceiling. And with more and more practices being bought up by corporates, there will be fewer and fewer privately owned practices. The medical world already has an acute shortage of virtually all specialties at all levels so this does not really apply.

 

[M-J-G]

In our area there are vets around but good luck getting any of them to come out. We make do by doing everything ourselves and using some specialized in something like preg checking.

During calving I run into not having the tools to get a calf out about 8 times per year. I eventually found a young vet that will always come because “I’ve got bills to pay” he has a great attitude. Without him I’d be shooting a few cows.

I’m considering getting my own tools and just doing it myself I’ve been in enough cows to know what to do. Need a saw, eye socket hook, snare and that claw grabber thing and we should be ok. Just have to make do with less sleep

The rest of common folk just have to make do with a rope.

 

[ollie989898]

Could you see them handing over control of caesarean’s,calvings and other non diagnostic procedures?

No fudging way. The level of education required for these things is far more in depth than you realise. I used to have the exact same kind of view. I'd watch 24 hours in A and E and go: 'ahhhhh doesn't look too difficult, that should be easy to sort'. Not that simple. Every layer of tissue has a blood supply, nerve supply and lymphatics to drain it. It also takes skill and expertise to recognise when a difficult calving is more than just a difficult calving. I've known of farmers try to brute force a calf out- it can be done, if you have zero concern for the health of the calf or the dam. It takes a lot of skill to recognise a sick animal or one that will be sick tomorrow or the day after. This is why they don't let just anyone go putting sharp things into animals with enthusiasm. It's like that video on youtube where a guy shoves a needle dipped in blue spray into a cow's foot. You need anatomical knowledge to know what the heck it is you are prodding.

 

[ollie989898]

The rest of common folk just have to make do with a rope.

And to be honest, if it needs more that it probably is a vet job, too.

 

[milkloss]

Would a C-section and the chance of a live calf not be a better option than dismembering?

Interesting issue. Here a c section is going to cost £350….. nearer £400 if you include the AB’s and pain relief for the few days after. Our vet is 5 minutes away. If the vet had to travel an hour or more I expect the cost to rise dramatically especially out of hours.

we do out best but I think cutting the calf out in pieces would be a more likely option in a more isolated location. Would be better than a dead calf AND a dead/knackered cow.

 

[ollie989898]

Interesting issue. Here a c section is going to cost £350….. nearer £400 if you include the AB’s and pain relief for the few days after. Our vet is 5 minutes away. If the vet had to travel an hour or more I expect the cost to rise dramatically especially out of hours.

we do out best but I think cutting the calf out in pieces would be a more likely option in a more isolated location. Would be better than a dead calf AND a dead/knackered cow.

That decision to do a caesar vs fetotomy shouldn't really be coming down to economics or how far a vet is away I don't think.

 

[milkloss]

No fudging way. The level of education required for these things is far more in depth than you realise. I used to have the exact same kind of view. I'd watch 24 hours in A and E and go: 'ahhhhh doesn't look too difficult, that should be easy to sort'. Not that simple. Every layer of tissue has a blood supply, nerve supply and lymphatics to drain it. It also takes skill and expertise to recognise when a difficult calving is more than just a difficult calving. I've known of farmers try to brute force a calf out- it can be done, if you have zero concern for the health of the calf or the dam. It takes a lot of skill to recognise a sick animal or one that will be sick tomorrow or the day after. This is why they don't let just anyone go putting sharp things into animals with enthusiasm. It's like that video on youtube where a guy shoves a needle dipped in blue spray into a cow's foot. You need anatomical knowledge to know what the heck it is you are prodding.

To a point but between us on this farm we could easily do an epidural for a prolapse or even a c-section, maybe not a displaced abomasum. To be clear: We don’t, but we do tell the vet to come on his own for a c section as the nurse is just an unnecessary expense. It’s not always rocket science.

 

[milkloss]

That decision to do a caesar vs fetotomy shouldn't really be coming down to economics or how far a vet is away I don't think.

No. But three hours for a vet and you’ve only just worked out the calf isn’t coming out the way nature intended……. You’re fcked either way.

 

[ollie989898]

To a point but between us on this farm we could easily do an epidural for a prolapse or even a c-section, maybe not a displaced abomasum. To be clear: We don’t, but we do tell the vet to come on his own for a c section as the nurse is just an unnecessary expense. It’s not always rocket science.

I have no doubt a lot of people could do some of these procedures if they learned carefully and has the correct training, but giving people carte blanche to do what is basically abdominal surgery on animals is not going to end well.

I would argue that there is a lot of what I would call 'rocket science' involved in some of this stuff.

 

[Top Tip.]

So do you think if they lowered the bar it would mean that the numbers would even out?

No ,I don’t and I don’t really know how to sort it but I do feel that knowledge doesn’t equal aptitude and sometimes going for people with the highest grades doesn’t necessarily give you the ones with the best aptitude for the job.

 

[Optimus]

I have no doubt a lot of people could do some of these procedures if they learned carefully and has the correct training, but giving people carte blanche to do what is basically abdominal surgery on animals is not going to end well.

I would argue that there is a lot of what I would call 'rocket science' involved in some of this stuff.

Vet told me the other day.they are taught watch a caesarian, do one teach one.

 

[Dead Rabbits]

That decision to do a caesar vs fetotomy shouldn't really be coming down to economics or how far a vet is away I don't think.

#1 is the welfare of the cow. If the vet is hours out, the decision makes itself. You don’t know the anguish of getting the voicemail of multiple vets when you know the clock is ticking. Real time as an animal care taker is a cruel bitch at times. Not everyone cares as you do at that moment. I’d much rather have someone as dedicated to my cows as I am to help but it’s not always possible for all of us. It’s heartbreaking sometimes. It’s not oftenbut you never forget when you fail. Never. I don’t take it lightly.

 

[Dead Rabbits]

To a point but between us on this farm we could easily do an epidural for a prolapse or even a c-section, maybe not a displaced abomasum. To be clear: We don’t, but we do tell the vet to come on his own for a c section as the nurse is just an unnecessary expense. It’s not always rocket science.

It’s fairly routine to toggle a cow on a large dairy. Anyone can give an epidural and we keep lidocaine on hand it’s cheap. Never seen a C-section done so couldn’t say. I don’t like my chances of recouperating a cow post surgery.

 

[roscoe erf]

Cost more to do a caesarian on a dog than a cow.that includes the call out fee to the farm too

that's the trouble with insurance it pushes prices up

 

[roscoe erf]

My father was telling me earlier tonight that he was speaking to a cousin who had a dog that ate grapes recently, they phoned the vet and they said we'll give you a tablet to make the dog sick. Away they went down to practice, the girl behind the counter handed over tablet and said that will be £90 thank you!

Little wonder they want into small animal practices at that price, could you imagine giving a farmer a tablet for any animal on the farm and saying £90 please, I don't think it would go down well....

that will depend on the size of tablet ...........................

 

[bluebell]

pay and conditions ? so what pay and conditions do you think is fair? our lot charge £39 for prebooked visit then over £130, an hour plus meds? the trouble is everything is upside down? doctors like vets i would of thought, if going, into the profession would expect, understand that animals patients dont just get ill, need attention between office hours? but no doctors now do far less hours work for more money? but going back to cattle, farming vets, its all another reason that livestock farmers will pack up?

 

[Woolless]

pay and conditions ? so what pay and conditions do you think is fair? our lot charge £39 for prebooked visit then over £130, an hour plus meds? the trouble is everything is upside down? doctors like vets i would of thought, if going, into the profession would expect, understand that animals patients dont just get ill, need attention between office hours? but no doctors now do far less hours work for more money? but going back to cattle, farming vets, its all another reason that livestock farmers will pack up?

Don't mistake the hourly rate charged by the practice for the vet's hourly rate that will be on their payslip...

 

[Farmer Fin]

Don't mistake the hourly rate charged by the practice for the vet's hourly rate that will be on their payslip...

Or the fact most large vets will only average 3-4 hrs a day of time billed.

 

[Hilly]

And to be honest, if it needs more that it probably is a vet job, too.

Sadly i had the vet out in middle of night for a very tricky bad calving that ended with a dead cow and calf , the vet was upset , i said to her dont worry your up against it before you start as i dont phone you for the easy calvers indeed they do it themselves , her comment was yes oir only advantage over yoh guys is the drugs we have access to . During the battle she said she jad spent the afternoon comvincing the practice student that large animals best as get out in the womderfull country side and the famers a much nicer easier to work with than public , good news but i bet the student goes small animal .