Vintage World Style

[Howard150]

Interesting debate been raised on FB about Vintage World Style. Jim Cochrane is a formidable collector of ag lit who has posted lots of Fiskars and Ransomes sales literature. The debate naturally followed on to allowing some of these Fiskars and exotic Ransomes bodies to plough in the Classic Class. Many of us have strong feelings toward protecting this class from such encroachment but nonetheless would not wish people to be excluded. The Classic Class over the European movement is in chaos with all but England allowing these much bigger Semi-Digger ploughs to compete alongside TCN’s and RWM’s. Should World Style bodies / work come to the fore in the Classic Class, then both these bodies would be sidelined, as they were in the late 60’s / early 70’s.
Vintage World Style is long overdue and would give people, some currently excluded, a chance to plough ‘on terms’ within like for like classes. As ever, getting it accepted is a different ball game, more often than not the powermongers not overly keen to promote ideas not of their own origination.

 

[Pennine Ploughing]

Surely there is room for an extra class, vintage world style or the likes,
As there must be lots of ploughs about from the 70's, 80s and 90s at least, and that leaves the last 20 years to go into world style as we know it today,
The class could consist of ploughs and bodies that are not allowed in the present classic class, to pre year 2000, and again don't see a problem with tractors being pre year 2000 as well, however I do think this sort of class should be limited to max of a 2 furrow plough, 2 reasons on this, first is about the amount of land needed for a match and no one could turn up with a 5 furrow plough, and secondly to finish with a 2 furrow plough will be harder with a big wide tractor, as many will know to wide a tractor and ploughing 2 furrows only could mean 2 wheel marks, a penalty
And maybe a limit on max width of furrow would go a long way to help in limiting tractor size due to wheel width, rather than putting other constraints on the rules of what could and could not go in the class,
There is nothing wrong with the classes we have now, an extra class for ploughs that don't fit may be good, don't know

 

[Mydexta]

If it was kept as a non hydraulic
Class it keeps it a fairly even playing field, as folk could enter with a small, older tractor which is easily transported.

I know the likes of a 4000, or a 135 can work hyd ploughs, but keeping it simple makes it far more equal and might encourage people to join in

 

[Vintage Auctioneer]

Howard 150,
Your point is made very well. In the ploughing world all classes up to 1976 are well catered for. I agree that it would be wrong to allow more modern boards such as Fiskars & Kverneland Super Hydreins into the Classic Class. However, there is a gaping hole developing after 1976 which needs filling. Speaking professionally with my auctioneers hat on, the strongest demand in the vintage market is for the classic tractors from the 1980's and 1990's - there should be a class to encourage these into the ploughing field. In my opinion this would add numbers to the hobby and not detract from existing classes. Speaking personally, nothing puts a smile on my face more than getting a first at the wheel of my late father's MF 362 ( Sutton & Huby 3F commercial class last Feb attached).

 

[Vintage Auctioneer]

View attachment 858957View attachment 858958
Howard 150,
Your point is made very well. In the ploughing world all classes up to 1976 are well catered for. I agree that it would be wrong to allow more modern boards such as Fiskars & Kverneland Super Hydreins into the Classic Class. However, there is a gaping hole developing after 1976 which needs filling. Speaking professionally with my auctioneers hat on, the strongest demand in the vintage market is for the classic tractors from the 1980's and 1990's - there should be a class to encourage these into the ploughing field. In my opinion this would add numbers to the hobby and not detract from existing classes. Speaking personally, nothing puts a smile on my face more than getting a first at the wheel of my late father's MF 362 ( Sutton & Huby 3F commercial class last Feb attached).

 

[Vintage Auctioneer]

View attachment 858957View attachment 858958
Howard 150,
Your point is made very well. In the ploughing world all classes up to 1976 are well catered for. I agree that it would be wrong to allow more modern boards such as Fiskars & Kverneland Super Hydreins into the Classic Class. However, there is a gaping hole developing after 1976 which needs filling. Speaking professionally with my auctioneers hat on, the strongest demand in the vintage market is for the classic tractors from the 1980's and 1990's - there should be a class to encourage these into the ploughing field. In my opinion this would add numbers to the hobby and not detract from existing classes. Speaking personally, nothing puts a smile on my face more than getting a first at the wheel of my late father's MF 362 ( Sutton & Huby 3F commercial class last Feb attached).

 

[Howard150]

If it was kept as a non hydraulic
Class it keeps it a fairly even playing field, as folk could enter with a small, older tractor which is easily transported.

I know the likes of a 4000, or a 135 can work hyd ploughs, but keeping it simple makes it far more equal and might encourage people to join in

I take your point but by the same token I have separate external services for my 780 which I used to pull my 2 furrow KV with Super Hydreins on. The kit is all still there and would be easily adaptable to my 35 or any Dexta.

This is where my logic comes from in that a small footprint vintage tractor would be hard pressed to beat some of the larger tractors post 76 that should be found a class to plough in, whilst using what is in essence a modern conventional plough. Leave the Classic Class alone. The work is entirely different.

Taking the lid off another can of worms is how the two different types of work would stand up to a judge’s scrutiny in a fair manner when in the same class. When all is said and done, World style ploughs obliterated the likes of TCN’s and RWM’s when they came in. There is a place for each - but in my opinion not both in the same class - each in a class of their own. The Classic Class is a jewel and should be treated as such. Let’s not let History repeat itself by bringing World Style ploughs into vintage classes at the expense of some great ploughmen and great work being done, more than likely at the expense of one or two well established body types, when there is more than enough room in the movement to accept them in their own right as a new and separate entity. Moreover the 76 qualifying deadline for the age of eligible tractors could also be brought forward to a more realistic date to encompass some of the great modern classic tractors. I am sure 99% of free thinking ploughmen would concur with this viewpoint.

I am already considering such a class at our match at Wetherby this autumn. Who knows. Modern Classic might well be a fitting title.

 

[Vintage Auctioneer]

View attachment 858957View attachment 858958
Howard 150,
Your point is made very well. In the ploughing world all classes up to 1976 are well catered for. I agree that it would be wrong to allow more modern boards such as Fiskars & Kverneland Super Hydreins into the Classic Class. However, there is a gaping hole developing after 1976 which needs filling. Speaking professionally with my auctioneers hat on, the strongest demand in the vintage market is for the classic tractors from the 1980's and 1990's - there should be a class to encourage these into the ploughing field. In my opinion this would add numbers to the hobby and not detract from existing classes. Speaking personally, nothing puts a smile on my face more than getting a first at the wheel of my late father's MF 362 ( Sutton & Huby 3F commercial class last Feb attached).

 

[arcobob]

As a (purely) vintage ploughman I have often wondered how this may evolve. I do not think that the present boundaries should be extended and infiltrated by more modern equipment but rather a new class should be introduced. How this should be defined is slightly beyond me and probably of no concern to those with their heads in the sand. However it is encouraging to to see that there are thinking people who see a future in match ploughing with sufficient forethought to express an opinion. Good luck and one day you may have a voice.

 

[Vintage Auctioneer]

View attachment 858957View attachment 858958
Howard 150,
Your point is made very well. In the ploughing world all classes up to 1976 are well catered for. I agree that it would be wrong to allow more modern boards such as Fiskars & Kverneland Super Hydreins into the Classic Class. However, there is a gaping hole developing after 1976 which needs filling. Speaking professionally with my auctioneers hat on, the strongest demand in the vintage market is for the classic tractors from the 1980's and 1990's - there should be a class to encourage these into the ploughing field. In my opinion this would add numbers to the hobby and not detract from existing classes. Speaking personally, nothing puts a smile on my face more than getting a first at the wheel of my late father's MF 362 ( Sutton & Huby 3F commercial class last Feb attached).

I take your point but by the same token I have separate external services for my 780 which I used to pull my 2 furrow KV with Super Hydreins on. The kit is all still there and would be easily adaptable to my 35 or any Dexta.

This is where my logic comes from in that a small footprint vintage tractor would be hard pressed to beat some of the larger tractors post 76 that should be found a class to plough in, whilst using what is in essence a modern conventional plough. Leave the Classic Class alone. The work is entirely different.

Taking the lid off another can of worms is how the two different types of work would stand up to a judge’s scrutiny in a fair manner when in the same class. When all is said and done, World style ploughs obliterated the likes of TCN’s and RWM’s when they came in. There is a place for each - but in my opinion not both in the same class - each in a class of their own. The Classic Class is a jewel and should be treated as such. Let’s not let History repeat itself by bringing World Style ploughs into vintage classes at the expense of some great ploughmen and great work being done, more than likely at the expense of one or two well established body types, when there is more than enough room in the movement to accept them in their own right as a new and separate entity. Moreover the 76 qualifying deadline for the age of eligible tractors could also be brought forward to a more realistic date to encompass some of the great modern classic tractors. I am sure 99% of free thinking ploughmen would concur with this viewpoint.

I am already considering such a class at our match at Wetherby this autumn. Who knows. Modern Classic might well be a fitting title.

I take your point but by the same token I have separate external services for my 780 which I used to pull my 2 furrow KV with Super Hydreins on. The kit is all still there and would be easily adaptable to my 35 or any Dexta.

This is where my logic comes from in that a small footprint vintage tractor would be hard pressed to beat some of the larger tractors post 76 that should be found a class to plough in, whilst using what is in essence a modern conventional plough. Leave the Classic Class alone. The work is entirely different.

Taking the lid off another can of worms is how the two different types of work would stand up to a judge’s scrutiny in a fair manner when in the same class. When all is said and done, World style ploughs obliterated the likes of TCN’s and RWM’s when they came in. There is a place for each - but in my opinion not both in the same class - each in a class of their own. The Classic Class is a jewel and should be treated as such. Let’s not let History repeat itself by bringing World Style ploughs into vintage classes at the expense of some great ploughmen and great work being done, more than likely at the expense of one or two well established body types, when there is more than enough room in the movement to accept them in their own right as a new and separate entity. Moreover the 76 qualifying deadline for the age of eligible tractors could also be brought forward to a more realistic date to encompass some of the great modern classic tractors. I am sure 99% of free thinking ploughmen would concur with this viewpoint.

I am already considering such a class at our match at Wetherby this autumn. Who knows. Modern Classic might well be a fitting title.

I take your point but by the same token I have separate external services for my 780 which I used to pull my 2 furrow KV with Super Hydreins on. The kit is all still there and would be easily adaptable to my 35 or any Dexta.

This is where my logic comes from in that a small footprint vintage tractor would be hard pressed to beat some of the larger tractors post 76 that should be found a class to plough in, whilst using what is in essence a modern conventional plough. Leave the Classic Class alone. The work is entirely different.

Taking the lid off another can of worms is how the two different types of work would stand up to a judge’s scrutiny in a fair manner when in the same class. When all is said and done, World style ploughs obliterated the likes of TCN’s and RWM’s when they came in. There is a place for each - but in my opinion not both in the same class - each in a class of their own. The Classic Class is a jewel and should be treated as such. Let’s not let History repeat itself by bringing World Style ploughs into vintage classes at the expense of some great ploughmen and great work being done, more than likely at the expense of one or two well established body types, when there is more than enough room in the movement to accept them in their own right as a new and separate entity. Moreover the 76 qualifying deadline for the age of eligible tractors could also be brought forward to a more realistic date to encompass some of the great modern classic tractors. I am sure 99% of free thinking ploughmen would concur with this viewpoint.

I am already considering such a class at our match at Wetherby this autumn. Who knows. Modern Classic might well be a fitting title.

Modern Classic sounds good to me. The difficult part will be getting the new class established.

 

[ploughman61]

View attachment 858957View attachment 858958
Howard 150,
Your point is made very well. In the ploughing world all classes up to 1976 are well catered for. I agree that it would be wrong to allow more modern boards such as Fiskars & Kverneland Super Hydreins into the Classic Class. However, there is a gaping hole developing after 1976 which needs filling. Speaking professionally with my auctioneers hat on, the strongest demand in the vintage market is for the classic tractors from the 1980's and 1990's - there should be a class to encourage these into the ploughing field. In my opinion this would add numbers to the hobby and not detract from existing classes. Speaking personally, nothing puts a smile on my face more than getting a first at the wheel of my late father's MF 362 ( Sutton & Huby 3F commercial class last Feb attached).



Modern Classic sounds good to me. The difficult part will be getting the new class established.

Just look how long it is taking to get classic reversible going, just brought some more rules in.

 

[arcobob]

Just look how long it is taking to get classic reversible going, just brought some more rules in.

No incentive at the top.

 

[ploughman1963]

I would suggest that the best way is to adopt such a class at local matches and as it becomes more popular, the harder it is to prevent it being recognised/ officially embraced?

 

[Howard150]

I would suggest that the best way is to adopt such a class at local matches and as it becomes more popular, the harder it is to prevent it being recognised/ officially embraced?

My thoughts entirely Colin. Whilst I no longer plough in the Classic Class, I was there from the beginning. I enjoyed great success. I feel that I owe it something back in terms of preservation. Long may it continue in its current English form.

Why should modern classics be excluded from ploughing? - but by the same token why should they be allowed to spoil a good class? In my mind it is wrong to force them to bolster a flagging World Style class ( that’s the only place they can plough in England) when they have a distinct right of their own to plough in their own class. Surely modern classics run up to the end of 1999 Time for change.

 

[Dealer]

I muted this new class last week at the judges seminar, deaf ears was the response.

A 3 furrow class is next on the list if any new class is muted

New rules for classic class now q cabed tractors allowed if in production pre 76

Opens the door for some 4wd tractors I think.

Sop state there is a list of approved tractors but when I asked for a copy it was obvious that no list exists.

 

[ploughman61]

I muted this new class last week at the judges seminar, deaf ears was the response.

A 3 furrow class is next on the list if any new class is muted

New rules for classic class now q cabed tractors allowed if in production pre 76

Opens the door for some 4wd tractors I think.

Sop state there is a list of approved tractors but when I asked for a copy it was obvious that no list exists.

Was sent a list of tractors for all classes, along with new rule book, which i presume was sent to all affiliated society's.

 

[Dealer]

By make and model?

Or just dates of production

 

[ploughman61]

I muted this new class last week at the judges seminar, deaf ears was the response.

A 3 furrow class is next on the list if any new class is muted

New rules for classic class now q cabed tractors allowed if in production pre 76

Opens the door for some 4wd tractors I think.

Sop state there is a list of approved tractors but when I asked for a copy it was obvious that no list exists.

Was sent a list of tractors for all classes, along with new rule book, which i presume was sent to all affiliated society's.

By make and model?

Or just dates of production

Make and model ploughs as well have photographed it and attached them

 

[ploughman61]

Was sent a list of tractors for all classes, along with new rule book, which i presume was sent to all affiliated society's.

Make and model ploughs as well have photographed it and attached them

Just noticed at bottom of page 4 none eligible ploughs, all the one's David's on about, so we do need a class for them.

 

[Dealer]

Thanks

Yes class is needed

Its the ploughs on the banned list in the classic class that's needed