Vitamin drench, any good

[neilo]

Getting a 12month bolus but want to do it in a month so it covers the danger periods and they don't have lambs on them to wrestle through. Just doing Min Vit drench as the ground is short of Cobalt

Cobalt from a drench only lasts a few days, at most, despite what a few suppliers claim (without ever putting it in writing ).

For Cobalt deficiency you really need to be looking at a bolus (or an imported jab of Troy/Sureshot) IMO.

 

[TexelBen]

Cobalt from a drench only lasts a few days, at most, despite what a few suppliers claim (without ever putting it in writing ).

For Cobalt deficiency you really need to be looking at a bolus (or an imported jab of Troy/Sureshot) IMO.

What about a mineral salt bucket from the likes of Dallas Keith, free access whenever they want

 

[neilo]

What about a mineral salt bucket from the likes of Dallas Keith, free access whenever they want

Try it and see, but it certainly didn’t work here.

I had some ‘special’ buckets (a cynic might wonder how many folks had the same special formulation) made up from forage tests here a few years ago and trialed them on my March born Charollais lambs, where I could keep an eye on dlwg and knew they had no other mins/trace elements going in. Intakes were exactly what they claimed at 50g/hd/day and the lambs were barrelling along on their (bolused) mums. As soon as I weaned them their dlwg fell to zero and they went very stale, with telltale crusty eyes.
After a couple of weeks without change, I bolused them and gave them a cheap TE drench (inc copper and iodine then) and they turned round almost overnight.

I used the rest of the ton of buckets up, but didn’t rely on them and haven’t ordered any more!

This year’s Charollais lambs had an Agrimin Smarttrace Plus bolus, 1ml of Troy (B12) injection and 1ml of Flexidine (Iodine) injection at weaning. They were fair flying along, until the last of the grass went.

 

[som farmer]

What’s in it?

Adrench manufacturer told me that there were problems in drenches containing iodine AND copper together, causing the copper to chrystalise out and block guns. As a result, their ‘with copper’ drench now doesn’t contain Iodine, but their ‘no copper’ one does.

I’ve since taken notice of other manufacturers labels, and most are now like that, which isn’t much good if you need to give copper and iodine.

Does your product have both in by any chance?

we pour a weak solution of iodine down the cows backs, to get it into them, could the same work for sheep ? Hell of a lot easier if it does.
We do the dry cows if they have been on rape/kale, which is deficient in iodine, if you don't, the calves are dopey, weak and won't suck.

 

[neilo]

we pour a weak solution of iodine down the cows backs, to get it into them, could the same work for sheep ? Hell of a lot easier if it does.
We do the dry cows if they have been on rape/kale, which is deficient in iodine, if you don't, the calves are dopey, weak and won't suck.

You can apparently apply topical iodine on their heads, or part the fleece and put it on the skin. Mayo (& Wynnstay) sell a solution relatively cheaply for just that job. I’ve never used it though, and it has to be done fairly regularly.
I have drenched with a home made potassium iodide drench, and put the same in a water trough to give a mid-summer dose, at a cost of about 2p/hd, but needs doing monthly and see a lift each time (so production already dropped?).

I’ve just imported another batch of Flexidine. Total cost (with shipping, licences, etc) works out at about 50p per 1.5ml dose, supplying a constant amount for 7 months.

 

[Kingcustard]

Cobalt from a drench only lasts a few days, at most, despite what a few suppliers claim (without ever putting it in writing ).

For Cobalt deficiency you really need to be looking at a bolus (or an imported jab of Troy/Sureshot) IMO.

Doing that but want to start the 12 month bolus in a month so its covering the danger period and I can bolus the ewes in the gripper without the lambs getting in the way

 

[Kingcustard]

Try it and see, but it certainly didn’t work here.

I had some ‘special’ buckets (a cynic might wonder how many folks had the same special formulation) made up from forage tests here a few years ago and trialed them on my March born Charollais lambs, where I could keep an eye on dlwg and knew they had no other mins/trace elements going in. Intakes were exactly what they claimed at 50g/hd/day and the lambs were barrelling along on their (bolused) mums. As soon as I weaned them their dlwg fell to zero and they went very stale, with telltale crusty eyes.
After a couple of weeks without change, I bolused them and gave them a cheap TE drench (inc copper and iodine then) and they turned round almost overnight.

I used the rest of the ton of buckets up, but didn’t rely on them and haven’t ordered any more!

This year’s Charollais lambs had an Agrimin Smarttrace Plus bolus, 1ml of Troy (B12) injection and 1ml of Flexidine (Iodine) injection at weaning. They were fair flying along, until the last of the grass went.

What is the Troy injection and how long do you reckon the injections last for Iodine and whatever is in Troy.

Asked the vet about the Smart Shot injection or whatever it was called but they can't get it anywhere

 

[Bury the Trash]

You can apparently apply topical iodine on their heads, or part the fleece and put it on the skin. Mayo (& Wynnstay) sell a solution relatively cheaply for just that job. I’ve never used it though, and it has to be done fairly regularly.
I have drenched with a home made potassium iodide drench, and put the same in a water trough to give a mid-summer dose, at a cost of about 2p/hd, but needs doing monthly and see a lift each time (so production already dropped?).

I’ve just imported another batch of Flexidine. Total cost (with shipping, licences, etc) works out at about 50p per 1.5ml dose, supplying a constant amount for 7 months.

where would be the best place to buy P iodide atm ? and i guess if it was mixed sensibly in a header tank ibc etc if that flock used that water up in say a couple of days or tailored to suit anyway, it would be fairly well regulated the way they are drinking water atm moment would give a pretty reliable/predictable overall dosage i should think.

 

[neilo]

What is the Troy injection and how long do you reckon the injections last for Iodine and whatever is in Troy.

Asked the vet about the Smart Shot injection or whatever it was called but they can't get it anywhere

Troy is basically the same as Smartshot, but around a tenth of the price (iirc) and easier to handle. It doesn't last as long as Smartshot, with a 1ml dose supposed to last 8 weeks in lambs (probably safe to assume 6 though). Cost is 10-12p/1ml dose.
Like Smartshot, it doesn't have a UK licence, so has to be imported under a Special Import Certificate, which your vet can simply get (online form). There are UK suppliers (Merlin Vets?), who will supply your vet, but he still needs to do the licence and obviously those importers work on a healthy margin...

Form for your vet to get the licence is here: https://www.vmd.defra.gov.uk/sis/default.aspx?AspxAutoDetectCookieSupport=1

Australian supplier that will post Troy to UK is here: https://www.vetnpetdirect.com.au/products/troy-vitamin-b12-injection-500ml-for-sheep-and-cattle

The Flexidine is also an import licence product, so needs a separate application on that same form. I get mine from a supplier in NZ, who don't have an online shop. Again, there are UK importers that carry stock, but at a good margin. It supplies as steady trickle of Iodine for 7 months.

You need to establish a need for either product, or anything else that is imported.

 

[neilo]

where would be the best place to buy P iodide atm ? and i guess if it was mixed sensibly in a header tank ibc etc if that flock used that water up in say a couple of days or tailored to suit anyway, it would be fairly well regulated the way they are drinking water atm moment would give a pretty reliable/predictable overall dosage i should think.

The last KI powder I got was through APC Pure. It was cheaper to buy two 500gm pouches than it was to buy a kilo in a tub for some reason: https://apcpure.com/product/potassium-iodide-99-9-foil-pouch/

To make up the drench, I mix 50g of KI powder in a litre of water in a drench bottle and shake it up, which dissolves readily enough. That is the ratio my vet was making it up at. Dose rate is 5ml per ewe or 2.5ml per lamb (5ml supplies 300mg iirc, so a big dose).
I tried adding it to a water trough when it's hot and they're all drinking well, after a post in the dairy section in here last year. I just pour the same amount that I would dose that bunch of ewes with into the trough. It would be more concentrated at the start and gradually get more dilute, but it seems to work well.

 

[Kingcustard]

Troy is basically the same as Smartshot, but around a tenth of the price (iirc) and easier to handle. It doesn't last as long as Smartshot, with a 1ml dose supposed to last 8 weeks in lambs (probably safe to assume 6 though). Cost is 10-12p/1ml dose.
Like Smartshot, it doesn't have a UK licence, so has to be imported under a Special Import Certificate, which your vet can simply get (online form). There are UK suppliers (Merlin Vets?), who will supply your vet, but he still needs to do the licence and obviously those importers work on a healthy margin...

Form for your vet to get the licence is here: https://www.vmd.defra.gov.uk/sis/default.aspx?AspxAutoDetectCookieSupport=1

Australian supplier that will post Troy to UK is here: https://www.vetnpetdirect.com.au/products/troy-vitamin-b12-injection-500ml-for-sheep-and-cattle

The Flexidine is also an import licence product, so needs a separate application on that same form. I get mine from a supplier in NZ, who don't have an online shop. Again, there are UK importers that carry stock, but at a good margin. It supplies as steady trickle of Iodine for 7 months.

You need to establish a need for either product, or anything else that is imported.

What is in the Troy

 

[ISCO]

What is in the Troy

Both vitamin B12 . We use Troy.now as much cheaper than Smartshot.

 

[neilo]

Iirc Cobalt is needed by the rumen bacteria to synthesise vitamin B12, which is then absorbed and used by the sheep.
Troy & Sureshot both supply B12 directly, making up for the deficit that cobalt deficient sheep have.

 

[Kingcustard]

Iirc Cobalt is needed by the rumen bacteria to synthesise vitamin B12, which is then absorbed and used by the sheep.
Troy & Sureshot both supply B12 directly, making up for the deficit that cobalt deficient sheep have.

Do you think there is a danger period for low Cobalt or is it all year round

 

[neilo]

Do you think there is a danger period for low Cobalt or is it all year round

I've no idea, but it seems to have the most visible effect on growing lambs. I've no idea what effect it has on adult sheep.

 

[ISCO]

Do you think there is a danger period for low Cobalt or is it all year round

Before we were aware of cobalt deficiency our lambs would do very well until June and around 35kg when they stopped growing and got scabby ears.
Local.merchant suggested drenching with straight cobalt every 10 days which transformed them but not practical long-term. This was pre smartshot .
We then did blood tests and forage analysis. Forage in spring was high in cobalt but dropped by June when deficiency started to show.
Never had any success with bolus in ewes or lambs until vet suggested cosicure ewe bolus which do seem to work for us.

 

[gerr]

If the lambs ears are a bit crusty, you know you have a cobalt issue. Give them 1 multi drench and bolus them and their ears will be like a teddy bear in 3 weeks.