Wales BPS replacement

[Agrivator]

A food shortage will have a massive effect on Government thinking.

 

[Agrivator]

If they had any sense, they'd pay those on better land a production sub to keep food cheap and those on marginal land (90% of Wales) an environment park keeper sub

But the most efficient way of maintaining marginal land in a tidy state, suitable for tourists and the environment, is to encourage sheep and cattle farming.

It would take an army of park wardens to achieve what a single farming family can achieve.

 

[farmerm]

I have heard multiple times, how the new schemes will allow the powers that be to pay us a margin on enviro works, rather than ‘income foregone’, which was forced on government by those nasty people at the EU.

We’ll see.

well start with the basic facts.. there is less money in the pot in real terms. some of the pot will be getting robbed by large hands not previously eligible to draw from the pot... unlike BPS which was handed out for no cost to you but a few hours form filling, what little bit is left in the pot will require you to put in considerable time, cost and income foregone in order to put you hand in to draw a few coins from the bottom... for those not willing to jump though the new hoops the pot will look very empty.

 

[Thick Farmer]

Looks to me as though the UK would be a good market for Welsh lamb if didn’t import virtually the same amount as Welsh farmers produce from the other side of the globe!

 

[farmerm]

View attachment 985991
Looks to me as though the UK would be a good market for Welsh lamb if didn’t import virtually the same amount as Welsh farmers produce from the other side of the globe!

The figures only tell half the story... meat breaks down into many different products which have different demand and different value in different parts of the world. The cuts the UK imports are generally not the same as those we export. To change the import/export balance you have to start by changing consumer behavior.

 

[neilo]

The figures only tell half the story... meat breaks down into many different products which have different demand and different value in different parts of the world. The cuts the UK imports are generally not the same as those we export. To change the import/export balance you have to start by changing consumer behavior.

Seasonality has a greater effect on lamb than most other products too. If consumer preference is for fresh, young lamb then it just isn't available year round, from either side of the globe.

 

[Thick Farmer]

The figures only tell half the story... meat breaks down into many different products which have different demand and different value in different parts of the world. The cuts the UK imports are generally not the same as those we export. To change the import/export balance you have to start by changing consumer behavior.

I’ve looked into this and I don’t agree. consumer behaviour would change rapidly enough if there were only certain cuts available.

 

[farmerm]

I’ve looked into this and I don’t agree. consumer behaviour would change rapidly enough if there were only certain cuts available.

Yes the new behaviour brought about by shelves short of lamb legs and chops but full of offal would be a shift to other meats if not rioting and voting out the government responsible at the first opportunity...

 

[Thick Farmer]

Yes the new behaviour brought about by shelves short of lamb legs and chops but full of offal would be a shift to other meats if not rioting and voting out the government responsible at the first opportunity...

We‘re talking about different cuts of meat here - not the difference between chops and offal.

 

[Still Farming]

Substantial funding made available as key agricultural schemes extended | GOV.WALES

More than £66 million is being made available by the Welsh Government to continue delivering positive environmental outcomes for Wales, a key part of maximising the protective power of nature through farming.

gov.wales

 

[Bald Rick]

I note that our Minister has announced that BPS & Glastir agreements will remain (subject to funding from London) in situ until 2023

This will give some stability until the new regime takes over.

New Agriculture Bill to be launched at the new Senedd in 2022

Summary of Minister's annoucement:

• BPS will continue for 2022 and 2023 subject to sufficient funding being provided by UK Government.
• Glastir continues – contract holders will be offered extensions to December 2023.
• The Agriculture (Wales) bill will be introduced during the first year of the Senedd (2022)
• Further consultations and interventions will be launched from 2022 to prepare farmers for entry to the Sustainable Farming Scheme which will open in 2025.

 

[7610 super q]

Welsh farm subsidy changes delayed again to 2025

The transitions to new subsidy arrangements following Brexit are already under way in England.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[neilo]

It does seem sensible to continue with a system that is now working relatively well, while a new system is planned properly, as well as allowing farmers in Wales some certainty in order to plan & budget accordingly. Far more sensible than Westminster’s approach of slashing funding and imagining they can implement a completely new system, with new objectives, within a couple of years and at the same time. That seems a reckless ambition, at best.

However, the extension of Glastir Advanced contracts is only for cropping options ime, with no possibility of doing any further contract works. That means that my own income from Glastir is down from c.£8k/yr to c.£2k/yr, albeit with fewer expenses on my part too of course.
It’s more a ‘limping on’, rather than an extension of the program.

 

[SilliamWhale]

It does seem sensible to continue with a system that is now working relatively well, while a new system is planned properly, as well as allowing farmers in Wales some certainty in order to plan & budget accordingly. Far more sensible than Westminster’s approach of slashing funding and imagining they can implement a completely new system, with new objectives, within a couple of years and at the same time. That seems a reckless ambition, at best.

However, the extension of Glastir Advanced contracts is only for cropping options ime, with no possibility of doing any further contract works. That means that my own income from Glastir is down from c.£8k/yr to c.£2k/yr, albeit with fewer expenses on my part too of course.
It’s more a ‘limping on’, rather than an extension of the program.

Glastir is an odd scheme. It's pretty much been shut off from new entrant's for 5 years. Which in many ways is wierd given the focus on the environment.

 

[fgc325j]

Welsh farm subsidy changes delayed again to 2025

The transitions to new subsidy arrangements following Brexit are already under way in England.

www.bbc.co.uk

The senedd doing what it does best - no one wants to be responsible for making a decision - just in case the fan is pointing in their direction
when the sh*t hits it - so they keep talking round in circles. No doubt, with plans to increase the number of MP's the excuse will be "that they need
to wait for the views of these new members in order to have a balanced scheme". We get the politicians we deserve.

 

[john 650]

They talk about wanting a progressive, developing industry that nurtures new entrants, and developing forward thinking businesses, and now we have a system which will still in many ways be based on what you were farming in 2001, 24 years on....

It's beyond a joke for new entrants. Meanwhile WG modulate the fund, to skim cash off, to subsidise British Airways planting trees....

 

[Still Farming]

The senedd doing what it does best - no one wants to be responsible for making a decision - just in case the fan is pointing in their direction
when the sh*t hits it - so they keep talking round in circles. No doubt, with plans to increase the number of MP's the excuse will be "that they need
to wait for the views of these new members in order to have a balanced scheme". We get the politicians we deserve.

Defer to next elections and blame everyone , and say supporting farmers most likely???

 

[SilliamWhale]

They talk about wanting a progressive, developing industry that nurtures new entrants, and developing forward thinking businesses, and now we have a system which will still in many ways be based on what you were farming in 2001, 24 years on....

It's beyond a joke for new entrants. Meanwhile WG modulate the fund, to skim cash off, to subsidise British Airways planting trees....

I agree. But I've come to the conclusion farming doesn't need the new entrants it claims to need either

 

[john 650]

I agree. But I've come to the conclusion farming doesn't need the new entrants it claims to need either

Without jumping to any conclusions, or personal jibes, that's quite an easy conclusion to arrive at, if you are established...

In saying that, what we farm, is at a somewhat reduced rent, as the LL receives the historic payment.

However, as it's legally managed (at least in terms of cross compliance for their historic entitlements) by the LL, it's not to all intense purposes managed at all, with no incentive for the LL or tenant to actually farm the land- and there's plenty like it, stagnating into poorer grazing year on year, with little environmental or economic benefit- other than the historic payment, and the IHT relief it was purchased for....

 

[SilliamWhale]

Without jumping to any conclusions, or personal jibes, that's quite an easy conclusion to arrive at, if you are established...

In saying that, what we farm, is at a somewhat reduced rent, as the LL receives the historic payment.

However, as it's legally managed (at least in terms of cross compliance for their historic entitlements) by the LL, it's not to all intense purposes managed at all, with no incentive for the LL or tenant to actually farm the land- and there's plenty like it, stagnating into poorer grazing year on year, with little environmental or economic benefit- other than the historic payment, and the IHT relief it was purchased for....

I hear you. I suppose what I'm saying is that I don't think the lack of new entrant's is a big a concern as purported.

But I agree with you on historic payments.

What's stopping you more intensively farming the land you are getting at a cheaper rent?