Wales NVZ, stocking rate at 170kg/ha N.

[vantage]

With the new proposed NVZ giving a total average N of 170kg/ha how is is goi to impact your business. It doesn’t look very good at the moment, with a need here to find more than double the existing land base.

 

[GrassRats]

Can I ask where you got that figure from?

We've farmed in an NVZ for well over a decade. The limit artificial N on grass is 300kg/Ha.

It's closed periods, storage and the N Max (nitrogen form all sources) that will pose a challenge for some.

 

[davidroberts30]

With the new proposed NVZ giving a total average N of 170kg/ha how is is goi to impact your business. It doesn’t look very good at the moment, with a need here to find more than double the existing land base.

Find that webinar from wednesday
They said 250kg n was only organic n
And there will be a different limit on bagged

 

[vantage]

Find that webinar from wednesday
They said 250kg n was only organic n
And there will be a different limit on bagged

No, it’s been cut to 170!

 

[vantage]

Can I ask where you got that figure from?

We've farmed in an NVZ for well over a decade. The limit artificial N on grass is 300kg/Ha.

It's closed periods, storage and the N Max (nitrogen form all sources) that will pose a challenge for some.

An email from Kite.

 

[vantage]

”Whole Farm Nitrogen limit from slurry/chemical manure of 170 kg/ha. For 200 cows and a 25% replacement rate, there would be a requirement of around 396 acres of land being available to keep within the limit. There may be derogations available, but these have not been published yet”

 

[deleted user 837354]

”Whole Farm Nitrogen limit from slurry/chemical manure of 170 kg/ha. For 200 cows and a 25% replacement rate, there would be a requirement of around 396 acres of land being available to keep within the limit. There may be derogations available, but these have not been published yet”

Whoever wrote that sentence is a goon of the highest order and should not be involved in agriculture. What the flying fudge is 'chemical manure'. I would not be making policy or long term strategic decisions on the advice of anyone who is writing bilge like that. I would seek advice from real deal, not a collection of consultants who can't even use the correct terminology.

 

[d williams]

No, it’s been cut to 170!

There be no world breaking wheat crops then

 

[GrassRats]

”Whole Farm Nitrogen limit from slurry/chemical manure of 170 kg/ha. For 200 cows and a 25% replacement rate, there would be a requirement of around 396 acres of land being available to keep within the limit. There may be derogations available, but these have not been published yet”

I'd try not to stress. Wait until they publish the guidance.

I find it very hard to believe the above is true as barely anyone would be compliant. I've heard alot of so called advise about this the last two years all contradictory. The worst thing would be to go out and spend money now before we know what the requirements are and how much is available in grants.

 

[Sylution]

Drop cows back to just under 6000 litres and you can up to 220kg/ha. So with those figures you could well be ok. Not going to be many herds in the 6000-7000 litre mark. Whoever has drawn up these plans and figures need their heads looking at.

 

[davidroberts30]

”Whole Farm Nitrogen limit from slurry/chemical manure of 170 kg/ha. For 200 cows and a 25% replacement rate, there would be a requirement of around 396 acres of land being available to keep within the limit. There may be derogations available, but these have not been published yet”

250kg/n a hectare is 200 units a acre if im right
my 4 cuts of silage will use 240 from application begging of april to cutting beginning of august at 2 units a day

 

[beefandsleep]

There be no world breaking wheat crops then

Is this the end of Wales leading position amongst the worlds leading arable cropping regions?

 

[deleted user 837354]

250kg/n a hectare is 200 units a acre if im right
my 4 cuts of silage will use 240 from application begging of april to cutting beginning of august at 2 units a day

Its a ridiculous policy and I would demand the people wanting it implemented publish the evidence that says reducing the whole of Wales to below that limit will solve their nitrate issues.

 

[beefandsleep]

The stupidity and ignorance of putting arbitrary limits on N use across an entire country, let alone one with as varied soil types and topography as Wales, is staggering. One wonders if the assembly is trying to force you all to become organic through legislation as the better farms would support the stocking rates in the example above quite easily. I hope you are all writing to your assembly member.

 

[Campani]

here is a direct link to the regs.

https://gov.wales/sites/default/fil...cultural-pollution-wales-regulations-2021.pdf

No one hectare can have more than 250kg applied.
average over the entire holding cannot be more than 170kg.

I guess average over the holding includes all the areas you cannot spread. buffers, woodland etc.

 

[Bald Rick]

The stupidity and ignorance of putting arbitrary limits on N use across an entire country, let alone one with as varied soil types and topography as Wales, is staggering. One wonders if the assembly is trying to force you all to become organic through legislation as the better farms would support the stocking rates in the example above quite easily. I hope you are all writing to your assembly member.

One of the prime arguments of both NFU Cymru & FUW is that our "Dear Minister" has merely cut & pasted from EU legislation without any thought of how it would fit in to a Welsh situation.

I am currently pondering on the validity of "buying" a hill farm

 

[davidroberts30]

here is a direct link to the regs.

https://gov.wales/sites/default/fil...cultural-pollution-wales-regulations-2021.pdf

No one hectare can have more than 250kg applied.
average over the entire holding cannot be more than 170kg.

I guess average over the holding includes all the areas you cannot spread. buffers, woodland etc.

from your link

"Holding limit 
A limit of 250kg per individual hectare is applied to the spreading of organic manure for any 12 month rolling period.  No more than 170kg of nitrogen from manure can be applied each year, averaged across the holding, either directly deposited by the animal or by spreading."


no mention of artificial

 

[AlfM]

Is this the end of Wales leading position amongst the worlds leading arable cropping regions?

you can still apply artificial N. Those numbers above are just muck

 

[davidroberts30]

you can still apply artificial N. Those numbers above are just muck

there are number to be released soon regarding artificial fert

 

[Bald Rick]

BTW, it is certainly worth emailing your Senedd member as the legalisation has been "Called In" for debate on March 3rd.

Here is the reply I received from mine:

Thank you for contacting Rhun ap Iorwerth regarding your views on the Government’s decision to introduce NVZ Regulations (The Water Resources (Control of Agricultural Pollution) (Wales) Regulations 2021).

Plaid Cymru strongly oppose these regulations. We share your incredulity that we have a Minister and civil servants who cannot see how damaging these regulations will be. This is despite the Minister herself promising no less than eleven times to Senedd Members that she would not introduce the regulations whilst we were in the middle of the pandemic.

Plaid Cymru has already tabled a motion to annul the regulations and this will be debated and voted upon on Wednesday, 3rd March. We have to make sure that all Members of the Senedd receive strong representations from as many as possible in order to try and get this decision reversed. It’s a long shot (given the Government’s majority) but we will do everything we can to make sure they all know what the implications of the regulations will be to farming businesses.

Nobody, least of all Plaid Cymru is denying that there is a problem that needs to be addressed when it comes to water pollution, but the answer that the Government are proposing is far-reaching, disproportionate and won’t work. We believe the Government should listen to the expert advice of Natural Resources Wales and introduce a more tailored and proportionate approach.
Plaid Cymru are also concerned that the ‘Closed Periods’ contained within the regulations, which dictate when slurry can be spread, will only make the problem worse. A ‘farming by calendar’ approach won’t work, as weather patterns become ever more interchangeable.
This is just the latest in a series of decisions that will affect our rural communities in the coming years. The UK Government’s broken promise on farm funding will see us lose £137m next year. Add this to the proposals for Wales to emulate Conservative reforms in England, taking away any form of basic payment, leaves our industry exposed to all sorts of challenges at a time when more than ever we need stability and security.
All of this underlines how crucial this May’s Senedd election is for the future of farming and our rural communities in Wales.
Thank you once again for contacting us on this important issue.