Warburtons Contract

[Renaultman]

why does hobby farming have to be making a loss? Borrowing money from other off farm enterprises makes good sense to me , better than borrowing from the bank or finance company.

Exactly I reckon we will be 80,%, in farm numbers, hobby farmers and vice versa in acreage with the big getting bigger and the smaller selling up or subsidising their farming enterprise with others. This doesn't mean to say the farming enterprises won't be profitable just not profitable enough to maintain the farmers lifestyle.
I have a good friend who is a hobby farmer, finished about 100 fat beast a year while working full time.

 

[ajd132]

True but the farm can be part of the marketing strategy. Although the farm should be able to stand on it's own 2 feet raised/grown on our own farm is always a bonus.

That is a fair point

 

[db9go]

If you are subsidising a loss making business with outside money you are hobby farming. If you are borrowing to make a good profitable business like you say then it’s fine

How many farmer members are there in cam grain

 

[ajd132]

Is James Dyson a hobby farmer ?

No because I believe that after heavily investing in infrastructure they are now turning profit.

 

[ajd132]

How many farmer members are there in cam grain

What does that have to do with anything? Think there’s 500 members.

 

[homefarm]

at the moment I pay the AHDB to do the marketing for me (no choice) We are better to market collectively as it gives us the bigger budgets BUT it clearly needs to be used better it's seems


*like the name though ........ might just go register that

AHDB do not market and should not. They should promote and advertise. They did a good jod with soft biscuit wheat for export.

Grain merchants market on our behalf because as JC correctly points out individual farmers cannot guarantee supply year on year.

I think they do a very difficult job very well.

First they have to find the buyer, discover his exact requirements, which most likely will be slightly different every time an then guarantee to deliver possibly with a large default clause if they do not. There was a rumour that the crap we produced in 2012
slowed down production so much at Cerestar that Mars where in danger of not producing their Christmas chocolate. Could have cost Cerestar £1,000,000 for non delivery.

Each buyer will have different quality which is more important to them than others, Bushel weight is all about through put in the mill, moisture matters more to a producer who sells his product with a maximum moisture content.

Then they have to buy the grain, please remember , THEY DO NOT SET THE PRICE, the futures do.
They compete on volume not price, any difference on the day is more likely due to haulage to differences.

So they all offer free sampling but nothing is free so they pay for it. I bet it amounts to a tidy sum per annum.

Now they eventually manage to persuade a farmer to sell the some grain, remember. our grain has to pay for all those phone calls before we sold and all the other freebies they hand out at shows etc, trials sites etc.

Is there any other industry where the buyer, offers so much to the seller, usually it is the other way round.

We expect a free hat and teeshirt when we buy a tractor, we should be giving them the same treatment when they buy our grain.

Now comes the tricky bit.

Our marketing agent delivers our grain to the buyer he thinks is the most suitable after the free samples he took but for many possible reasons it does not meet the customers spec.

As our marketing agent has to keep that customer happy whatever it takes, that is what marketing is all about. Finding and keeping loyal customers.

So we have rejections and deductions.

Some may seem fairer than others, but, for instance ,if low bushel grain halves your production in the mill, you will need to penalise heavily or reject, if low bushel is ok then perhaps a low deduction is ok.
Different buyers do have different claims structures.

The claim has to go back to the farmer and again some merchants handle this better than others.
It does often ruin an otherwise good working partnership and it is a pity a better way of communicating the reasons could not be found.

Going forward we need to work together better and keep a much grain use a possible in the UK , both UK produced and imported.
We will always find it easier to compete with imported grain than trying to export UK grain.

Take your farmer glasses off and look at this from all sides, marketing grain is not easy.

 

[principal skinner]

AHDB do not market and should not. They should promote and advertise. They did a good jod with soft biscuit wheat for export.

Grain merchants market on our behalf because as JC correctly points out individual farmers cannot guarantee supply year on year.

I think they do a very difficult job very well.

First they have to find the buyer, discover his exact requirements, which most likely will be slightly different every time an then guarantee to deliver possibly with a large default clause if they do not. There was a rumour the the crap we produced in 2912
slowed down production so much at Cerestar that Mars where in danger of not producing their Christmas chocolate. Could have cost Cerestar £1,000,000 for non delivery.

Each buyer will have different quality which is more important to them than others, Bushel weight is all about through put in the mill, moisture matters more to a producer who sells his product with a maximum moisture content.

Then they have to buy the grain, please remember , THEY DO NOT SET THE PRICE, the futures do.
They compete on volume not price, any difference on the day is more likely due to haulage to differences.

So they all offer free sampling but nothing is free so they pay for it. I bet it amounts to a tidy sum per annum.

Now they eventually manage to persuade a farmer to sell the some grain, remember. our grain has to pay for all those phone calls before we sold and all the other freebies they hand out at shows etc, trials sites etc.

Is there any other industry where the buyer, offers so much to the seller, usually it is the other way round.

We expect a free hat and teeshirt when we buy a tractor, we should be giving them the same treatment when they buy our grain.

Now comes the tricky bit.

Our marketing agent delivers our grain to the buyer he thinks is the most suitable after the free samples he took but for many possible reasons it does not meet the customers spec.

As our marketing agent has to keep that customer happy whatever it takes, that is what marketing is all about. Finding and keeping loyal customers.

So we have rejections and deductions.

Some may seem fairer than others, but, for instance ,if low bushel grain halves your production in the mill, you will need to penalise heavily or reject, if low bushel is ok then perhaps a low deduction is ok.
Different buyers do have different claims structures.

The claim has to go back to the farmer and again some merchants handle this better than others.
It does often ruin an otherwise good working partnership and it is a pity a better way of communicating the reasons could not be found.

Going forward we need to work together better and keep a much grain use a possible in the UK , both UK produced and imported.
We will always find it easier to compete with imported grain than trying to export UK grain.

Take your farmer glasses off and look at this from all sides, marketing grain is not easy.

How about borderline spec GP2 milling wheat due for Manchester (and sold on that basis) ends up in a Northamptonshire mill on a Friday lunchtime and is rejected and redirected up north with no phone call to myself until it lands???

 

[Renaultman]

How about borderline spec GP2 milling wheat due for Manchester (and sold on that basis) ends up in a Northamptonshire mill on a Friday lunchtime and is rejected and redirected up north with no phone call to myself until it lands???

If the merchant wants to take the chance then he should pay the claim but in the same breath should keep any premium. I grow feed and sell feed, as that is what my local market requires. There is no way I would chance some at a low grade premium (buiscuit) because the £3 gain isn't worth the risk to me. If they decide to send it, it would be at their risk but their gain.

 

[Clive]

AHDB do not market and should not. They should promote and advertise. They did a good jod with soft biscuit wheat for export.

Grain merchants market on our behalf because as JC correctly points out individual farmers cannot guarantee supply year on year.

I think they do a very difficult job very well.

First they have to find the buyer, discover his exact requirements, which most likely will be slightly different every time an then guarantee to deliver possibly with a large default clause if they do not. There was a rumour that the crap we produced in 2012
slowed down production so much at Cerestar that Mars where in danger of not producing their Christmas chocolate. Could have cost Cerestar £1,000,000 for non delivery.

Each buyer will have different quality which is more important to them than others, Bushel weight is all about through put in the mill, moisture matters more to a producer who sells his product with a maximum moisture content.

Then they have to buy the grain, please remember , THEY DO NOT SET THE PRICE, the futures do.
They compete on volume not price, any difference on the day is more likely due to haulage to differences.

So they all offer free sampling but nothing is free so they pay for it. I bet it amounts to a tidy sum per annum.

Now they eventually manage to persuade a farmer to sell the some grain, remember. our grain has to pay for all those phone calls before we sold and all the other freebies they hand out at shows etc, trials sites etc.

Is there any other industry where the buyer, offers so much to the seller, usually it is the other way round.

We expect a free hat and teeshirt when we buy a tractor, we should be giving them the same treatment when they buy our grain.

Now comes the tricky bit.

Our marketing agent delivers our grain to the buyer he thinks is the most suitable after the free samples he took but for many possible reasons it does not meet the customers spec.

As our marketing agent has to keep that customer happy whatever it takes, that is what marketing is all about. Finding and keeping loyal customers.

So we have rejections and deductions.

Some may seem fairer than others, but, for instance ,if low bushel grain halves your production in the mill, you will need to penalise heavily or reject, if low bushel is ok then perhaps a low deduction is ok.
Different buyers do have different claims structures.

The claim has to go back to the farmer and again some merchants handle this better than others.
It does often ruin an otherwise good working partnership and it is a pity a better way of communicating the reasons could not be found.

Going forward we need to work together better and keep a much grain use a possible in the UK , both UK produced and imported.
We will always find it easier to compete with imported grain than trying to export UK grain.

Take your farmer glasses off and look at this from all sides, marketing grain is not easy.

I'm mean "marketing" as in promoting a brand, not market as in sell stuff - sorry if that confused, you are right, there is a crucial difference

 

[homefarm]

How about borderline spec GP2 milling wheat due for Manchester (and sold on that basis) ends up in a Northamptonshire mill on a Friday lunchtime and is rejected and redirected up north with no phone call to myself until it lands???

I would give the a ring when I had calmed down and try for an explanation and better result, depending on the outcome might find a new marketing partner, there are loads out there.

I do not fall out with them if I can help it, not always easy, I then can still sell to them if they offer a good deal in the future.
Let them sample the grain so long as its free get some money back that way.

The more samples you have the more likely you will know how variable your pile is

 

[Castlemaine]

How about borderline spec GP2 milling wheat due for Manchester (and sold on that basis) ends up in a Northamptonshire mill on a Friday lunchtime and is rejected and redirected up north with no phone call to myself until it lands???

I know that mill in northampton beginning with a W , they reject everything and anything, try it on all the time , refuse to send into them anymore

 

[T Hectares]

I know that mill in northampton beginning with a W , they reject everything and anything, try it on all the time , refuse to send into them anymore

Interesting, I've sent plenty of Gp3 to them and find them a better buyer than the usual Gp3 home at Avonmouth !!

It costs me an extra £1/t to get it there but it pays off through less claims

 

[An Gof]

Interesting, I've sent plenty of Gp3 to them and find them a better buyer than the usual Gp3 home at Avonmouth !!

It costs me an extra £1/t to get it there but it pays off through less claims

I hear plenty of complaints about Avonmouth at NFU meetings ?

 

[T Hectares]

I hear plenty of complaints about Avonmouth at NFU meetings ?

Screenings are their standard one!!

 

[homefarm]

Screening will be about reducing output in the mill. Your hired a 150hp tractor they send a 120hp are you happy to pay the same rate?
Either turn the combine fan up or have a chat with your marketing agent about the best home for your wheat. T. Hectares seems to have solved the issue.

 

[Farmer-George]

AHDB do not market and should not. They should promote and advertise. They did a good jod with soft biscuit wheat for export.

Grain merchants market on our behalf because as JC correctly points out individual farmers cannot guarantee supply year on year.

I think they do a very difficult job very well.

First they have to find the buyer, discover his exact requirements, which most likely will be slightly different every time an then guarantee to deliver possibly with a large default clause if they do not. There was a rumour that the crap we produced in 2012
slowed down production so much at Cerestar that Mars where in danger of not producing their Christmas chocolate. Could have cost Cerestar £1,000,000 for non delivery.

Each buyer will have different quality which is more important to them than others, Bushel weight is all about through put in the mill, moisture matters more to a producer who sells his product with a maximum moisture content.

Then they have to buy the grain, please remember , THEY DO NOT SET THE PRICE, the futures do.
They compete on volume not price, any difference on the day is more likely due to haulage to differences.

So they all offer free sampling but nothing is free so they pay for it. I bet it amounts to a tidy sum per annum.

Now they eventually manage to persuade a farmer to sell the some grain, remember. our grain has to pay for all those phone calls before we sold and all the other freebies they hand out at shows etc, trials sites etc.

Is there any other industry where the buyer, offers so much to the seller, usually it is the other way round.

We expect a free hat and teeshirt when we buy a tractor, we should be giving them the same treatment when they buy our grain.

Now comes the tricky bit.

Our marketing agent delivers our grain to the buyer he thinks is the most suitable after the free samples he took but for many possible reasons it does not meet the customers spec.

As our marketing agent has to keep that customer happy whatever it takes, that is what marketing is all about. Finding and keeping loyal customers.

So we have rejections and deductions.

Some may seem fairer than others, but, for instance ,if low bushel grain halves your production in the mill, you will need to penalise heavily or reject, if low bushel is ok then perhaps a low deduction is ok.
Different buyers do have different claims structures.

The claim has to go back to the farmer and again some merchants handle this better than others.
It does often ruin an otherwise good working partnership and it is a pity a better way of communicating the reasons could not be found.

Going forward we need to work together better and keep a much grain use a possible in the UK , both UK produced and imported.
We will always find it easier to compete with imported grain than trying to export UK grain.

Take your farmer glasses off and look at this from all sides, marketing grain is not easy.

You sir, have hit the nail squarely home in one hit!
There are some bits there I hadn’t taken into account.

 

[ollie989898]

Interesting thread. I do enjoy seeing people who operate private businesses laying into another private business. Who the hell Warburtons want to buy grain from is their concern. All the typical calls of 'they should only buy 100% British wheat'- what the fudge? What is that old adage about telling other people how to run their businesses? I can only presume Warburtons are buying in Canadian wheat because it gives them the quality characteristics they need for the end product to be 100% perfect. Marketing food, of course, is a chaotic game and not for the unwary where quality and consistency are paramount.

Could it be that Frontier and co have been selected because of their international ties and the ability to guarantee supplies of the appropriate quality as they can import boatloads etc to suit the buyer?

It is no surprise that big companies are hoovering up the industry; as we know margins in commodities are often paper-thin and for this reason a lot of big quantities are usually involved. It is not good that whole chunks of the industry are being sewn up by what are effectively big multinationals but the industry has a choice to support smaller and local firms if they so choose. Likewise, Warburtons have a choice. Even so, they should not be accused of trying to fudge the whole industry or pollute the entire food chain with unapproved GM wheat or any of the other nonsense that might be dreamt up by folk so enraged by this news. This is not the USSR, companies and individuals are free to make a choice to suit their circumstances.

 

[ollie989898]

at the moment I pay the AHDB to do the marketing for me (no choice) We are better to market collectively as it gives us the bigger budgets BUT it clearly needs to be used better it's seems


*like the name though ........ might just go register that

There is nothing stopping you selling to mills locally, I used to purchase grain direct from farms. Granted, it was only feed but it cut out the middleman and supported businesses in the region.

 

[T Hectares]

Screening will be about reducing output in the mill. Your hired a 150hp tractor they send a 120hp are you happy to pay the same rate?
Either turn the combine fan up or have a chat with your marketing agent about the best home for your wheat. T. Hectares seems to have solved the issue.

The Avonmouth mill apply there own formula to Screenings, combining admix and screenings together but using the individual threshold leading to them being the only place I have sold grain to that has ever docked me for screenings.

Still, you are right, the answer is to not sell to them unless they are £2/t other homes and to be clear with the merchant about the end user.

 

[ollie989898]

How enviromentaly sustainable is sourcing 50% of wheat from Canada.
We all know the ships run on the lowest grade of oil.
What seed treatment are the Canadians allowed to use on their wheat?
Is the Canadian wheat 100% free from GM contaminants ?

I would urge caution playing the environmental card when it comes to foods imported from elsewhere in the world. You might well be on the winning team in such comparisons more often than not but being a loser just once could cause a big shift in the minds of consumers.