Warburtons Contract

[Hedger]

Charming,so thats how you work!?
Rest assured I'll find out the mill.

To be completely honest, absolutely not, every load that comes into our sites is tested fairly using the same procedures whilst always being given benefit of the doubt.

We operate several long term merchant/back to farm agreements and it's likely I've met a few of you in recent years. This just proved the point that you are happy to throw stones but can't take it when they come back over the wall.

I'd happily take you round our sites as increasing grower understanding of what works for us while asking what can we do (don't mention averaging, moisture etc) to improve grower experience is key to us.

So happy to discuss further if you like.

 

[Honest john]

" on spec blended rubbish" was the full quote from a large malt barley buyer.
He did not expand on or give his reasons for this statement but I know he was talking about Openfield barley.

I think the contract was max 1.7 N but I know he did not want all 1.7N barley.

I think he wanted a range of barley N say 1.3 to max 1.7 so he could blend the best N for the consistency of his brand.

This man educated me on the importance of Brand and how nothing must be allowed to taint its reputation. His brand had to taste the same every time you bought it and always available at the pump or on the shelf. A loyal customer can never be disappointed with the product or have any reason to try another similar brand.
He also said the price of barley was unimportant so long as his competitors also had to pay the same..

I suspect Warburtons are the same and expect some over delivery on the minimum stated on the contract.

From the little we know it does appear Openfield lost the contract before Frontier took it.

In which case the contract should be tiered. So the money goes up as the N % goes down.
Or in the Rev in Warburtons case.
it’s not Openfield at fault in your example it’s the contract & pricing.

 

[Banana Bar]

why is everyone so upset about food imports ? ........... The UK has been importing food for decades (centuries even !) and for all those years it has been produced to a different standard

Absolutely NOTHING has changed

NFU and remoaners are just winding farmers up again


If we ban food imports do we ban cheap electronics cars etc ? ........ did you all want to geo without TV's, iPhone and computers ........... your cars and ractors even

someone, please tell me how they envisage this navana where nothing less than UK standard products can be available in this country please ??


If you believe YOUR product is better then I suggest money and effort are focused on marketing that fact to consumers rather than trying to force law to tell them what they must do !

Most people would be naked too. So much stuff produced in sweat shops with a designer label.

 

[Brisel]

" on spec blended rubbish" was the full quote from a large malt barley buyer.
He did not expand on or give his reasons for this statement but I know he was talking about Openfield barley.

I think the contract was max 1.7 N but I know he did not want all 1.7N barley.

I think he wanted a range of barley N say 1.3 to max 1.7 so he could blend the best N for the consistency of his brand.

This man educated me on the importance of Brand and how nothing must be allowed to taint its reputation. His brand had to taste the same every time you bought it and always available at the pump or on the shelf. A loyal customer can never be disappointed with the product or have any reason to try another similar brand.
He also said the price of barley was unimportant so long as his competitors also had to pay the same..

I wouldn’t learn much from that person from what you’ve just posted. Pay for max 1.7 and be surprised when 1.7 turns up? Say one thing formally then want something better? Sounds like a girl I used to date

If they wanted 1.3 to 1.7 they would just buy from more than one supplier, which they do. I’ve sent a lot of malting barley to Soufflet at Burton. They’ve been one of the better consumers in my experience. Good feedback via the merchant (Gleadell) and flexible on delivery times. Mostly, I’ve sent goods well over spec for N I.e. less than the 1.85N in the contract.

 

[JCfarmer]

Hedger you obviously don't think much of Openfield, I don't think they are gods gift either but when people start unfairly dismissing them I will not have it especially when they have looked after me.
I asked what UK Consumer you worked for as you gave a politicians answer in the first place, 'UK Consumer'.
I'm afraid you threw your dummy out of the pram!
Please act professional in future as I don't think you have done yourself any favours.
I've had a lot of stones thrown at me and one thing I dont't do is hide behind a wall.
Thank you for the offer to look round the mill but I will have to decline that for now but maybe in the future.
Or if Openfield goes tits up!

 

[Hay Hoe Lets Mow]

They are and have always imported 50% of their wheat requirement which will be GM.

Wrong. Canadian imported wheat is not GM.

 

[T Hectares]

The reason Warburtons ( and many other UK bakers ) buy Canadian wheat is that their Hard red wheats with their very high proteins and different grist characteristics are not grown here, there's been dabbling in the past with AC Barry grown for RHM but the variety doesn't really work here.
We as an industry do not supply what the mills require in this instance, with a huge breeding effort maybe it could be possible to breed HRW varieties to suit our climate, produce the proteins needed and be attractive financially to grow, but in general the UK is a net importer of wheat most years until we have '19 and '15 levels of production which push us into be exporters

I know nothing of why Warburtons switched from Openfield to Frontier, but being able to source more Canadian wheat wouldn't be one, they blend HRW with our Gp1's to produce the product they need, adding more HRW wouldn't work and Canadians don't grow the Gp1's they need to make the grists work.

Reading Wheat growers pages on FB it seems that they are bemoaning the low price of wheat in the US at the moment, but it seems to equate to a similar price to what we are receiving here, by the time it's shipped to a port, shipped across the Ocean and delivered to a mill it's more expensive than UK wheat.
At points in the last year UK barley was the cheapest in the world!!

 

[B'o'B]

Wrong. Canadian imported wheat is not GM.

I don’t think there are any GM wheats commercially available anywhere in the world right now, as it is such a complex genome to work with. Gene editing may have changed that by now I suppose, but I haven’t heard anything about it yet.

 

[homefarm]

The buyer did not offer an explanation. My guess might be wrong.

They moved from Openfield to Frontier, so did Camgrain and now Warburtons

One way of doing business must be better from the buyers point of view than the other.

I will not speculate why any more, because I believe the customer has to be right even when i know he is wrong.

Warburtons are customers, and we have to deal with whoever they appoint as agents or lose the sale.

 

[B'o'B]

The buyer did not offer an explanation. My guess might be wrong.

They moved from Openfield to Frontier, so did Camgrain and now Warburtons

One way of doing business must be better from the buyers point of view than the other.

I will not speculate why any more, because I believe the customer has to be right even when i know he is wrong.

Warburtons are customers, and we have to deal with whoever they appoint as agents or lose the sale.

So by that logic you would just accept any claim against your grain even if you knew it to be wrong? I can assure you the buyer is not always right, and if you are sure of what you sent in when challenged they will normally admit they have made a mistake,.

 

[bobk]

Think folk are jumping to conclusions , Warbies are entitled to buy off whoever gives them the best logistics ,
I've never had any problem with Frontier ,
I suspect a bit of anti Trumpism

 

[B'o'B]

Think folk are jumping to conclusions , Warbies are entitled to buy off whoever gives them the best logistics ,
I've never had any problem with Frontier ,
I suspect a bit of anti Trumpism

Frontier do offer a pretty good service when you sell to them, and if you keep them on their toes they can do the same when you buy Inputs from them. Their market share hasn’t happened by accident. However, there does come a point when a single company is controlling to much of the market and Frontier have reached and crossed that point. Trouble is they are good at what they do and are pretty safe to deal with.

 

[bobk]

Frontier do offer a pretty good service when you sell to them, and if you keep them on their toes they can do the same when you buy Inputs from them. Their market share hasn’t happened by accident. However, there does come a point when a single company is controlling to much of the market and Frontier have reached and crossed that point. Trouble is they are good at what they do and are pretty safe to deal with.

If they can't give decent input prices they don't get the order , never been any pressure from them .

 

[homefarm]

Mostly, I’ve sent goods well over spec for N I.e. less than the 1.85N in the contract.

This was the problem buyers expect to receive over spec without paying.

He said he was willing to pay a premium but only if the rest of the brewing industry did too otherwise his brand would be disadvantaged in the market place.

Perhaps by insisting on delivering on spec Openfield are disadvantaging themselves in their market. I am guessing again who really knows.

 

[B'o'B]

If they can't give decent input prices they don't get the order , never been any pressure from them .

They haven’t sold me many inputs for many years of that very reason. They don’t seem to mind and nor do I!

 

[bobk]

They haven’t sold me many inputs for many years of that very reason. They don’t seem to mind and nor do I!

That's what I find odd , I'm happy to keep everything in house , THEY ARE BEGINNING TO WAKE UP REGARDS INPUTS HERE. couldn't be arsed to turn caps off ..

 

[Brisel]

This was the problem buyers expect to receive over spec without paying.

He said he was willing to pay a premium but only if the rest of the brewing industry did too otherwise his brand would be disadvantaged in the market place.

Perhaps by insisting on delivering on spec Openfield are disadvantaging themselves in their market. I am guessing again who really knows.

I can see why as a barley buyer he wants it cheap but the value of the barley in a pint is only a couple of % of what the drinker pays. I’ve heard all the talk of supply contracts when they can’t get enough that disappear in a puff of smoke when there’s a glut. My sympathy for your friend is limited!

 

[homefarm]

So by that logic you would just accept any claim against your grain even if you knew it to be wrong? I can assure you the buyer is not always right, and if you are sure of what you sent in when challenged they will normally admit they have made a mistake,.

Touchwood we do not get many claims and never had one I felt I could challenge. Had a few dropped with an apology and an explanation.
There are destinations l will not deliver to though.

 

[Hindsight]

This was the problem buyers expect to receive over spec without paying.

He said he was willing to pay a premium but only if the rest of the brewing industry did too otherwise his brand would be disadvantaged in the market place.

Perhaps by insisting on delivering on spec Openfield are disadvantaging themselves in their market. I am guessing again who really knows.

But as a growers organisation if Openfield started to deliver over specification grain 'just to keep a buyer happy as he had done one over Openfield' the supplier members would soon kick up and as why they were being upderpaid / overdelivered to specification. If you are comparing that situation with Frontier supplying to the same end buyer and if Frontier are over delivering to specification it implies Frontier are robbing the farmer.

Just sayin'

 

[homefarm]

I can see why as a barley buyer he wants it cheap but the value of the barley in a pint is only a couple of % of what the drinker pays. I’ve heard all the talk of supply contracts when they can’t get enough that disappear in a puff of smoke when there’s a glut. My sympathy for your friend is limited!

Not my friend, but it was very interesting seeing it from their point of view. The sample was accurate and unquestionable it had to be the brand reputation depended on it.
It was impossible for a load rejected today to pass tomrrow if just reloaded on a different lorry.

The locals did exactly this, and as we all know every sample from the same load will have some variation, most loads passed with a new sample.

He did not believe them. He had a very poor opinion of farmers as they kept trying to deliver off spec grain.