Water has four phases...and why homeopathy works (possibly)

[martian]

Here's a completely fascinating lecture from the Bionutrient Conference we went to in December. The Martianess went to this lecture and raved about it and I've just got round to watching it:

The subject is extraordinary enough...added to this the idea that if there is this much that we don't know about water, what the hell else don't we know?

 

[Kiwi Pete]

I think when it comes to the natural, biological world, there's more that we don't know than what we do actually understand.

If conventional science can't explain it, then it "ceases to exist" and that's the flaw.

 

[Farfrae]

Bunkum

http://archive.randi.org/site/index.php/swift-blog/1652-magic-water.html

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hexagonal_water

 

[egbert]

I was just reading conjectures about a water/ammonium mix (maybe) on Pluto, and water ice on a belt of comets (asteroids?) further out in the solar system.
So I'm surprised science missed the above.

 

[Simon C]

think I will just read the book, arrived this morning.

 

[martian]

Bunkum

http://archive.randi.org/site/index.php/swift-blog/1652-magic-water.html

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hexagonal_water

To be fair to Dr Pollack, he doesn't even mention homeopathy, I just stuck it in the title to see if anyone was paying attention. A lot of what he says is much more interesting than that though: surface tension, battery storage capabilities, capillary action, memory, filtration etc etc.
Each to their own though

 

[Daniel Larn]

This is almost entirely hocum, even with my limited Chemistry knowledge. He smatters in just enough half-truths to make some convincing points, but in doing so opens himself up to some further criticism.

 

[SilliamWhale]

I think when it comes to the natural, biological world, there's more that we don't know than what we do actually understand.

If conventional science can't explain it, then it "ceases to exist" and that's the flaw.

That's not true. Conventional science is just a case of testing the theory/ hypothesis. It doesn't mean it ceases to exist - it means the evidence to say that it does exist is not there. Science is updating all the time

 

[Kiwi Pete]

That's not true. Conventional science is just a case of testing the theory/ hypothesis. It doesn't mean it ceases to exist - it means the evidence to say that it does exist is not there. Science is updating all the time

You got me there, that was a poorly worded post.

I should have said "science is too restricted by custom, language, and compartmentalized to really take advantage of knowledge of the natural world and build on that"

 

[mikep]

This sort of crap has been doing the rounds for as long as I can remember.
Water is the basis of life and the presence or otherwise dictated where life could be sustained. Wells and springs were given mystical status as the givers of life and purity and were often dedicated to a God or deity as a consequence.
In later times spa towns grew up where again water was given a semi mystical charater as a cure all for those that 'took the waters' (and paid for it).
This comes through to the modern world as images of freshness and purity often involve images of water or ice, water is used for washing so is cleanliness personified and as a result there is an inbuilt and subconcious respect for water upon which we depend.
There are those who claim far greater powers for water and like all those posessed with similar fervent beliefs they are very convincing speakers and are a bit like the American preachers that can carry an audience and persuade then black is white because they want to believe there is something just beyond reason that explains everything.
Its bull shite pure as a mountain stream.

 

[martian]

I thought this might rattle a few cages.
The point is that there is a lot about water that is unexplained. Gerald Pollack is a scientist who has spent a lot of time actually studying how water behaves. Science moves on. A lot of science stuff I was taught at school turns out to be fantasy, especially when you get down to sub-atomic physics.
As I say, each to their own, but life is quite a lot more interesting than it seems

 

[egbert]

I for one am sorry this has moved on from homeopathy, as I'm denied the chance to explain that in future I'm going to pay my bills in a homeopathic manner.
To do this I'll place a signed cheque in an addressed envelope, then remove it, so leaving the faintest trace of a cheque in the envelope.

 

[Daniel Larn]

I thought this might rattle a few cages.
The point is that there is a lot about water that is unexplained. Gerald Pollack is a scientist who has spent a lot of time actually studying how water behaves. Science moves on. A lot of science stuff I was taught at school turns out to be fantasy, especially when you get down to sub-atomic physics.
As I say, each to their own, but life is quite a lot more interesting than it seems

I'm not convinced anything he's said is contradicting anything I understand from my A-Level Chemistry or Physics days. All of these phenomena he's talking about are well understood already, but he is really convoluting his delivery to make it seem more remarkable.

Challenging the status quo for no reason is very popular among academics, as it is usually very profitable, just saying.

 

[Kiwi Pete]

I thought this might rattle a few cages.
The point is that there is a lot about water that is unexplained. Gerald Pollack is a scientist who has spent a lot of time actually studying how water behaves. Science moves on. A lot of science stuff I was taught at school turns out to be fantasy, especially when you get down to sub-atomic physics.
As I say, each to their own, but life is quite a lot more interesting than it seems

I'd love to know how water can be divined by people who don't know they can, until they find that they can, if it has absolutely no energy field (being just a simple compound)
..and how animals can find it, and dig in the right place, since they don't even have money to sponsor such sorcery, or an internet to give them prejudices.

They don't even go to colleges, and yet they can still find a place where water is living under the ground.... they must be born lucky.

Plants will be alchemists next

 

[mikep]

I'd love to know how water can be divined by people who don't know they can, until they find that they can, if it has absolutely no energy field (being just a simple compound)
..and how animals can find it, and dig in the right place, since they don't even have money to sponsor such sorcery, or an internet to give them prejudices.

They don't even go to colleges, and yet they can still find a place where water is living under the ground.... they must be born lucky.

Plants will be alchemists next

I don't think the answer lies with magic water but more likely 500 Million years of evolution. As I said life depends on water so one of the major evolutionary survival pressures would be developing traits that can find it. I think we understand less about ourselves than water.

 

[Kiwi Pete]

I don't think the answer lies with magic water but more likely 500 Million years of evolution. As I said life depends on water so one of the major evolutionary survival pressures would be developing traits that can find it. I think we understand less about ourselves than water.

I think we understand less about all living things than we think - there's a large chasm between looking and seeing, and humans tend to look.

 

[Daniel Larn]

I don't think the answer lies with magic water but more likely 500 Million years of evolution. As I said life depends on water so one of the major evolutionary survival pressures would be developing traits that can find it. I think we understand less about ourselves than water.

Water dividing has failed every objective test since tests began, it's even more of a folly than this fella with his mystery water.

As for animals finding water, in hot conditions the water vapour would carry other volatile compounds and produce an odour. Much like when it rains on a hot day, you can smell the rain, so to speak. I'm sure animals with a heightened sense of smell would be able to pick up on this.

It's also entirely likely they can identify or simply remember dry river beds or wet holes, and so they find water in much the same way humans do.

 

[mikep]

Water dividing has failed every objective test since tests began, it's even more of a folly than this fella with his mystery water.

As for animals finding water, in hot conditions the water vapour would carry other volatile compounds and produce an odour. Much like when it rains on a hot day, you can smell the rain, so to speak. I'm sure animals with a heightened sense of smell would be able to pick up on this.

It's also entirely likely they can identify or simply remember dry river beds or wet holes, and so they find water in much the same way humans do.

Ah yes but!!!!! I use divining to find drains and it's pretty accurate. Have no idea what why or when but I think there is an innate sense imprinted subconsciously in us that helps. Can't explain it and don't care but it works for me and has saved a huge amount of time and effort over the years. We had one incident where a water pipe crossing a field developed a leak, we knew because the pressure dropped but it crossed the field drains and was getting into them not coming up couldn't hear it either there was no way of knowing where it was just a flow from the outfall. Nice job but found it first time within a yard so I must be decended from desert people!!!!!

 

[Doc]

There is some evidence that suggests ‘water seeers and diviners’ subconsciously assess hydrological features and a ‘know what to look for’ knowledge. It is also a classic case of confirmation bias of recording successes but overlooking failures. I know to look for greener depressions, easy last summer and here in Yorkshire that the land drains are spaced about 15 yards apart.
All objective, blinded tests have failed so far.
Water is a marvellous molecule though - read H2O by P Ball. It will blow your mind.

Animal senses are quantified, eg: smell, by size and number of olfactory epithelial cells and size of olfactory areas of the brain, but not necessarily qualified. You can’t imagine living in a world of ‘smell’ as they do, it’s impossible. Dogs are being trained to detect some cancers due to changes in the ‘smell’ of the human caused by metabolites from cancer growth. We know they can do it but not yet ‘how’. Robotic, smart noses’ are being developed all the time for use in medicine to detect chemistry changes.
I’ve come across many theoretical models of the sight of horses using anatomy of the eye - cornea, aqueous, lens, vitrious etc, it’s position and field of vision, cells and chemistry of the retina and the visual cortex of the brain to model what and how they ‘see’. I can however tell that none of the models seem to fit completely my observations of how they respond to visual stimuli. It’s not wrong, simply incomplete and the quest to understand will continue.
This understanding of animals we interact with senses can be very useful. For example, using science it’s finally dawned on the British Horse racing authority that dichromic vision horses can’t see orange. So the orange takeoff boards on steeple chase fences are being changed to yellow or blue. The studies are overwhelmingly confirming the science in this example. Of course, the deer shooting fraternity have known this for years, nice to know why though and may help the horse and the jockey.

 

[Kiwi Pete]

I don't think the answer lies with magic water but more likely 500 Million years of evolution. As I said life depends on water so one of the major evolutionary survival pressures would be developing traits that can find it. I think we understand less about ourselves than water.

I honestly don't even believe we've scratched the surface on energy, especially the communication between plants and other "unexplicable" phenomenon.

We have the first 3 dimensions fairly well sussed, because we can verbalise things about these and the sciences support our theories. However when it comes to simple stuff like plant's nervous systems, we do have a tendency to explain them away out of convenience, as there is a lot still to be discovered about the plant and animal kingdom - I don't expect the answers to come in my lifetime, so the next best thing is to bring up children with open and enquiring minds