Water logging, soil structure and much more.

To carry on my previous post the gentleman then put up a fairly common scenario for let's say a 1000 acre arable farm ,,,,,, in the eighties a 1000 acres used to have 2 tractor drivers , maybe even 3 , there would be a TW 25 and a couple of 7710's (( adjust model numbers to preferred brand ) , TW would do the heavy work and the smaller tractors would do the cultivating / drilling .
Jump to year 2000 and something ,,,,,, 1000 acre farm is probably 1200 because they have oodles of money from subs but because they are now having to pay the bank back some money they have to look to make savings , ( being a bit facetious here :)). , so manager and all staff are sacked and in comes the likes of some well known farming group ,
Kit compromises of one magnum , a solo or whatever and a 4 m cultivator drill ,,,,, there is another tractor on the farm but because the driver who does the cults likes his shiny new magnum it would be deemed a waste of assets to not use the shiny new 13 ton magnum and so it goes on the drill and the tractor that was supposed to go on the drill ends up on the rolls ,,,,,,,, this all works well in a dry autumn but it's the wet autumns when shiny 13 ton tractors running around on tender seed beds take there toll
The meeting I went to it was surprising how many of the folks sat down listening to him had to say to them selves this is us !!!!!!!
What it has to do in the direct drilling section I have no idea tho. :)
 

York

Member
Location
D-Berlin
I was reminded of a big debate at mid BFF days of one of the then more 2writing members. Arguing that he even sold his written of "farm hore" tractor as his economics calculation showed a 9month rental for tractors was the way to go. In the end he had to buy a "posh" trailer for his landi to haul the fire wood for the open fire in his living room during winter.
iOver here arable farms don't have tractors <200hp nowadays so even a 4000l sprayer is pulled with such a tractor on ultra narrow tires through tramlines.
York-Th.
 
Those old tyres were cross plies running at 30+ psi (except the Terra tyres), not today's radials running at 12-15 psi if set up correctly.

Deep compaction is purely down to axle weights which is where modern kit doesn't compare so favourably. By deep compaction I'm talking below subsoiler levels of 18"+
None of our tractors were crossply in the 80s. We had some terra tyres that were but like you say not at the higher pressures.
 
the biggest problem for compaction is doing work when the soil is not dry enough in the autumn or too early in the spring

in the 80s we used large amounts of muck good ploughed not so good burnt straw not so good
radial tyres duels at 12 psi had a grass ley in some fields and residual om from decades of livestock farming
farm was drained and moled with grant aid

moleing on land that takes a mole regularly helps drainage a lot but a wheel on wet soil undoes any good however lgp the tyre
the only standing water on field moled last spring is where it has been run on too wet
 

bactosoil

Member
Water logging etc will be affected by as previously said cultural practices such and Min/Zero Till , wide/narrow tyre's ,subsoiling , drains ,drainage and the maintenance added to of course the soil you have to start with .All of these on their own have infinite variables , but one big common denominator mentioned only in a few posts is biology ( and can affect most soils) . With a healthy diverse 'balance ' of bacteria and fungi etc etc you will get a soil capable of far better water infiltration and capillary rise, that is also far more resistant /ability to repair compaction in the top layer ( and far more likely to be found in zero till soils).
If the balance of biology goes out of kilter any soil is susceptible to bio-clogging or bio film formation with bacteria effectively glueing the soil together that can lead to run off or water logging. The effect can be quick .. in less than 20 minutes it's possible for bio film formation and I suspect quite a few of you will have seen wet soils on top and when you dig into a profile you find noticeably dryer soil .Only adding this to the list of causes of water logging but it should be up on the list .
 

York

Member
Location
D-Berlin
now let's get to the basics of all that is minerals. So it's chemestry before biology as the later is based on minerals as well.
It helps me much on this topic to understand the variation of "welling ability" of the major cations in the soil.
This differance in swelling ability is resulting definitly in pore forming in the soil & the change in pore space due to added rainfall. this can result in no air left in the soil = change in biology.
So the reaction & outcome on a specific soil is pretty much predictable & lacks any mystical aspect, even the "mystic" of biology.
York-Th.
p.s. there is even no need for using a "new" soil test measuring biology activity.
 

bactosoil

Member
Biological activity to a degree will fall into being 'predictable ' but bio-film formation will be triggered not by water falling as rain alone and the physical changes it makes ..New testing is fast approaching and don't believe biology is 'mystic' just that with so much new data ,analysis and computing power will struggle to keep up , and when it does it will prove beneficial .Satellite's will very soon have the capacity for instance to measure soil compaction from space , layer by layer, sq m by sq m , while also measuring water content , either a few centimeters down or meters , this is far removed from Nir cameras etc and will I am sure prove a great additional tool to farmers .
 
Soil type is much more important than anything else. Some soils will take any abuse in their stride and not have lasting harm, others slump if you look at them so its horses for courses.
Here its weald clay the nasty stuff with no (practically) sand or stone so wet by nature. With notill the top looks and is wet and sometimes water will gather for a while, however it travels well and the tramlines are now in their fourth year in places. Now if i plouged the same would happen but not at the plough surface but at the plough bottom so you would not see the water but its there. If you ran on the tramlines you would mark up and at the places where the water would gather you would get the deep ruts. The ploughing can disguise the impermeable nature of the soil but it doesnt change it.
 

conor t

Member
Biological activity to a degree will fall into being 'predictable ' but bio-film formation will be triggered not by water falling as rain alone and the physical changes it makes ..New testing is fast approaching and don't believe biology is 'mystic' just that with so much new data ,analysis and computing power will struggle to keep up , and when it does it will prove beneficial .Satellite's will very soon have the capacity for instance to measure soil compaction from space , layer by layer, sq m by sq m , while also measuring water content , either a few centimeters down or meters , this is far removed from Nir cameras etc and will I am sure prove a great additional tool to farmers .
Have you any links to this new testing?
 

bactosoil

Member
Have you any links to this new testing?
there are lots of links to Bio-film formation in soil but haven't seen any links yet to new bacteria/fungal assessment or the new Satellite capacity
but I have had partial sight to them and they are real and being tested .
 
For drainage to be done once and right, why not do it yourself with the Shelton CT150 Chain Trencher.
CT150 compressed on 7530.jpg


Available to hire or buy.
For more information go to www.sheltonsdrainage.com or give us a call 01507 578288 / 07734531227.
 

SFI - What % were you taking out of production?

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Red Tractor drops launch of green farming scheme amid anger from farmers

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As reported in Independent


quote: “Red Tractor has confirmed it is dropping plans to launch its green farming assurance standard in April“

read the TFF thread here: https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/gfc-was-to-go-ahead-now-not-going-ahead.405234/
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