Weaving GD demo

Andrew K

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Essex
The weight transfer bar is a pivoting piece of metal at the front of the drill that is hydraulically pressurised and able to exert force against the underside of the tractors link arms, increasing downwards pressure on the coulters .
Seems to work well, but maybe Sumo can explain better?
 

willy

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Rutland
image.jpeg
image.jpeg
Some more picture today of the weaving field is light at the bottum of the hill then a wet clay cap in the middle with springs in it. It was ww sprayed off due to black grass
 

Will7

Member
Not sure TBH Will, they all have strengths and weaknesses.....
You are about in the same place as me then!! I feel I ought to be looking at a disc drill, less bg disturbance, narrower rows, better residue handling, less power etc but I cant get away from the fact that the crops look well behind the seedhawk and it is a little more forgiving where soil conditions are not perfect.
 

Will7

Member
You could have both.
This is true, but a disc drill would be limited to a secondhand 4m to keep in budget so that will tie up my rolling tractor as it wont want 300hp on the front. Once you have taken one drill out, tried it, then gone and got the other one and tried that, then decided the first one was marginally better so gone back to fetch it it is lunchtime and nothing has been done. I like a little bit of controlled soil movement as it helps cover the seed and helps it to warm. The disc drills I have had on demo have not made a clear cut case to buy one.

In theory it is perfectly possible to drill my area with a 3m disc drill. But I only want 3 days autumn drilling cereals to get the balance of delaying drilling without having to maul it in, and 10 days in the Spring so I need to be doing 100-120 acres a day which is really 6m territory when you include moving seed around, cycling home for the drill, spraying, the odd school run etc.

That and I like my big numb american kit as it has proven to be reliable, one thought has been to stretch and re-model the seedhawk to 12m which would only give me one drill run between tramlines. God knows what is best but it does give me something to think about!!
 
This is true, but a disc drill would be limited to a secondhand 4m to keep in budget so that will tie up my rolling tractor as it wont want 300hp on the front. Once you have taken one drill out, tried it, then gone and got the other one and tried that, then decided the first one was marginally better so gone back to fetch it it is lunchtime and nothing has been done. I like a little bit of controlled soil movement as it helps cover the seed and helps it to warm. The disc drills I have had on demo have not made a clear cut case to buy one.

In theory it is perfectly possible to drill my area with a 3m disc drill. But I only want 3 days autumn drilling cereals to get the balance of delaying drilling without having to maul it in, and 10 days in the Spring so I need to be doing 100-120 acres a day which is really 6m territory when you include moving seed around, cycling home for the drill, spraying, the odd school run etc.

That and I like my big numb american kit as it has proven to be reliable, one thought has been to stretch and re-model the seedhawk to 12m which would only give me one drill run between tramlines. God knows what is best but it does give me something to think about!!

Stay as you are then I think.
 

D14

Member
This is true, but a disc drill would be limited to a secondhand 4m to keep in budget so that will tie up my rolling tractor as it wont want 300hp on the front. Once you have taken one drill out, tried it, then gone and got the other one and tried that, then decided the first one was marginally better so gone back to fetch it it is lunchtime and nothing has been done. I like a little bit of controlled soil movement as it helps cover the seed and helps it to warm. The disc drills I have had on demo have not made a clear cut case to buy one.

In theory it is perfectly possible to drill my area with a 3m disc drill. But I only want 3 days autumn drilling cereals to get the balance of delaying drilling without having to maul it in, and 10 days in the Spring so I need to be doing 100-120 acres a day which is really 6m territory when you include moving seed around, cycling home for the drill, spraying, the odd school run etc.

That and I like my big numb american kit as it has proven to be reliable, one thought has been to stretch and re-model the seedhawk to 12m which would only give me one drill run between tramlines. God knows what is best but it does give me something to think about!!

What is the point moving to a 12m drill if your not moving to a 12m ctf system with a 12.5m header on the combine? If its only to reduce number of wheelings on the land then you must be worried about the weight of the equipment, when then means its the wrong equipment surely?

Why don't you think about buying a nearly new disc drill and then an old tine drill to convert to the seed hawk tines. Make them both 6m and they both would sit on smaller tractors. I would think you could do both of those for under £50,000 if you look carefully.
 

willy

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Rutland
This is like me I have sold my dale and hopefully my Claydon, then I don't have too many choices come drilling, just make it work..

I have to say the GD is more like my dale but with narrower rows and less movement.

I think also a tine gives you comfort in thinking that at least there's a bit of movement and hopefully more tilth around the seed, but I have to say the GD did slice it under a slither of clay, and I thought oh dear but it's come really well and most importantly rooted well so this is what swung it for me, along with the service.
 

Will7

Member
What is the point moving to a 12m drill if your not moving to a 12m ctf system with a 12.5m header on the combine? If its only to reduce number of wheelings on the land then you must be worried about the weight of the equipment, when then means its the wrong equipment surely?

Why don't you think about buying a nearly new disc drill and then an old tine drill to convert to the seed hawk tines. Make them both 6m and they both would sit on smaller tractors. I would think you could do both of those for under £50,000 if you look carefully.

Because I don't need to. I am talking of spending £20k to go from an 8m drill to a 12m drill. To got to CTF at 12m will cost circa £150k. I want to make a profit, not appear on the front of a machinery journal with lots of shiny kit.

Raking is done at an angle, as is rolling depending on what works best for the situation. Drilling can even be on an angle if it aids trash flow and doesn't leave wheelings.

The only machine that operates in less than optimal conditions ( you would hope) is the drill, all tractors are on duals (710 rear and 600 fronts on the drilling tractor), trailers on floatations, combine on 1050 terra tyres; and then the drill is on poxy little wheels.

The key to doing a good job with a tine drill is speed, or lack of it. I could tell this year that the quality of work suffered by going just 1km/hr quicker but I had a lot to do. Rather than the coulter following the ground in a steady vertical movement it was chattering up and down.

On this land I will use a tine more than a disc so that wants to be my primary drill. I apply fert and slug pellets, and possibly Avadex next year, with the drill so that means duplicating that equipment for something I might not even use from season to season. Madness
 

D14

Member
Because I don't need to. I am talking of spending £20k to go from an 8m drill to a 12m drill. To got to CTF at 12m will cost circa £150k. I want to make a profit, not appear on the front of a machinery journal with lots of shiny kit.

Raking is done at an angle, as is rolling depending on what works best for the situation. Drilling can even be on an angle if it aids trash flow and doesn't leave wheelings.

The only machine that operates in less than optimal conditions ( you would hope) is the drill, all tractors are on duals (710 rear and 600 fronts on the drilling tractor), trailers on floatations, combine on 1050 terra tyres; and then the drill is on poxy little wheels.

The key to doing a good job with a tine drill is speed, or lack of it. I could tell this year that the quality of work suffered by going just 1km/hr quicker but I had a lot to do. Rather than the coulter following the ground in a steady vertical movement it was chattering up and down.

On this land I will use a tine more than a disc so that wants to be my primary drill. I apply fert and slug pellets, and possibly Avadex next year, with the drill so that means duplicating that equipment for something I might not even use from season to season. Madness

It appears your conundrum is simply disc vs tines and that you know discs are the better option but you've got a tine drill. You are firmly in cross slot territory as its both a tine and disc drill so why not take a look and a very long term view due to the price as it might just be your answer. A 3m UK version on a 200hp tractor on dual wheels or even a track system of some description may well suit your soils.
 

Will7

Member
It appears your conundrum is simply disc vs tines and that you know discs are the better option but you've got a tine drill. You are firmly in cross slot territory as its both a tine and disc drill so why not take a look and a very long term view due to the price as it might just be your answer. A 3m UK version on a 200hp tractor on dual wheels or even a track system of some description may well suit your soils.
??????

If I "knew" discs were the better option, I would be running a disc drill. All demos have proved to be inferior to the seedhawk.

Your last sentence shows a basic lack of understanding on your part of simple farming systems. How are you going to get a 200hp on dual wheels to 3m wide, without putting it on rowcrop width wheels? What about the mess a crawler would make on 3m machines, or perhaps I am meant to retrofit a track system onto a conventional tractor for £60k??

Be very careful when offering advice because it can make you look foolish
 

D14

Member
You are about in the same place as me then!! I feel I ought to be looking at a disc drill, less bg disturbance, narrower rows, better residue handling, less power etc but I cant get away from the fact that the crops look well behind the seedhawk and it is a little more forgiving where soil conditions are not perfect.

Post number 65 you say in a round about way you should have a disc drill, which could be interpreted as you know you should of bought one in the first place.
You then go on to say but the crops look better behind a tine which potentially shows your lack of understanding of a zero tillage system because what crops look like now does not automatically mean you can connect it to the final yield. For example rubbish looking oilseed rape that then harvests 5t/ha. Its a common example and one none of us can really explain especially when great looking osr harvests 2.5t/ha.

You have taken my replies as attacks which they are not and certainly not intended and you have posted on a public forum so surely you understand you will get varying replies. If you already know what you want then why post in the first place?
 

D14

Member
??????

If I "knew" discs were the better option, I would be running a disc drill. All demos have proved to be inferior to the seedhawk.

Your last sentence shows a basic lack of understanding on your part of simple farming systems. How are you going to get a 200hp on dual wheels to 3m wide, without putting it on rowcrop width wheels? What about the mess a crawler would make on 3m machines, or perhaps I am meant to retrofit a track system onto a conventional tractor for £60k??

Be very careful when offering advice because it can make you look foolish

Ever heard of a 2nd hand crawler such as a CAT 75 or similar. They can be purchased for under £30,000 and will go on for years. With regards to the so called mess they make by churning soil? Have a bigger headland and fit rtf so you drill every other bout but the crawler will be disturbing less soil than the tines on your drill anyway which cut a slot and smear the soil in their own right.
 

Will7

Member
Ever heard of a 2nd hand crawler such as a CAT 75 or similar. They can be purchased for under £30,000 and will go on for years. With regards to the so called mess they make by churning soil? Have a bigger headland and fit rtf so you drill every other bout but the crawler will be disturbing less soil than the tines on your drill anyway which cut a slot and smear the soil in their own right.
Just sold one due to running costs, weight and the mess they make even when drilling on alternate bouts (ie turning at 16m)!! I also sold a dd disc drill to purchase the tine drill as it was better suited to delayed drilling in the autumn and spring drilling on heavy land in my experience.

I have a system that works, but I am trying constantly to improve it. You have misinterpreted my earlier post, which was unfortunate. My understanding of direct drilling is reasonable, the farm looks well, but there is always reason to learn more which I try to do. The point I was trying to make was that my experience of disc drills does not live up to the hype on here and in the press, which make them out to be the answer to the maiden's prayer.

You are more than entitled to your opinion, and express it in total anonymity. I certainly did not view your posts as attacks, just misguided opinion which I appreciate you are liable to get on a public forum.

All the best

Will
 

D14

Member
Just sold one due to running costs, weight and the mess they make even when drilling on alternate bouts (ie turning at 16m)!! I also sold a dd disc drill to purchase the tine drill as it was better suited to delayed drilling in the autumn and spring drilling on heavy land in my experience.

I have a system that works, but I am trying constantly to improve it. You have misinterpreted my earlier post, which was unfortunate. My understanding of direct drilling is reasonable, the farm looks well, but there is always reason to learn more which I try to do. The point I was trying to make was that my experience of disc drills does not live up to the hype on here and in the press, which make them out to be the answer to the maiden's prayer.

You are more than entitled to your opinion, and express it in total anonymity. I certainly did not view your posts as attacks, just misguided opinion which I appreciate you are liable to get on a public forum.

All the best

Will

Fair enough and thank you for the clarification but staying on the subject as there was previous confusion, have you looked at the cross slot as it is both disc and tine so maybe a good solution for the job, but obviously comes at a massive cost compared to other options.

On our wet clay soils we have found a disc to be better by building om slowly through muck applications but also being happy to run a very shallow tillage pass at 1 inch very early after christmas to create a tilth for spring cropping but knowing this will create a weed flush at the same time. We then combat that by using a very low disturbance drill to sow so we do not get a weed flush but it has meant we now have no open slots as the title created by the 1 inch tillage pass covers the seeds easily along with the om applied we have a good system on some soil that used to take multiple passes with cultivators to get seed beds in previous years. Its taken 20 years of messing around to end up where we are but its the best solution because like you've seen a disc straight in can slot but also a tine that slots less moves more soil at seeding which is even worse.

Then for autumn cropping we ensure the wheats a planted into residue left by the likes of linseed or beans as these crops make the tilth for you. We then decide on a field by field basis whether we need to roll. If we do then you need something like avadex or a pre-em as the rolls move the soil, but if we don't roll then we have done as we wanted by having minimal movement at seeding time.

So the key is absolute minimal soil movement when seeding rather than worrying about no soil movement at all, as long as when you do move the soil, if you have to, its done in a timely fashion so that you can eradicate any weed flush completely prior to the next seeding.

A disc drill is absolutely key to this which is why tines for us are not an option on clay soils with black grass and rye grass issues.
 

Will7

Member
On our wet clay soils we have found a disc to be better by building om slowly through muck applications but also being happy to run a very shallow tillage pass at 1 inch very early after christmas to create a tilth for spring cropping

Thank you for sharing your experience. I would be interested to know where you farm as the thought of trying to cultivate at 1" deep in the early New Year would be a disaster here
 

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