Weaving GD demo

Cutlerstom

Member
Arable Farmer
Silty loam here (Salop Series), it's not that sticky, so not seen that. It's easy soil to drill, but caps badly when wet, which it often is.
Do you use cover crops? And if so, do they, or crop residues for that matter, help to reduce that capping? One of our contract farms has areas in fields of silty clay loam which can cap. They also test lower for OM so I wondered if cover cropping might help this
 

Richard III

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
CW5 Cheshire
Do you use cover crops? And if so, do they, or crop residues for that matter, help to reduce that capping? One of our contract farms has areas in fields of silty clay loam which can cap. They also test lower for OM so I wondered if cover cropping might help this

A good cover does reduce the problem considerably while it is there and bare soil is obviously the worst scenario. Wheat after spring beans seems to suffer particularly, as the soil is left so friable it just washes flat with ease. After a few years of No Till the surface of the soil is now pretty well clod free here, it's all been through a worm quite recently, so in a way resembles an over worked seedbed.

Some fields have a poor draining silty clay subsoil that is very slow draining, then when the soil reaches field capacity it just washes flat and won't open up again until the worms start working. This is marginal arable land at best, works ok in dry winters but wet ones are a nightmare. Free draining areas are much less of an issue.
 

kiwi

Member
Thanks for both of your replies once again. Not sure how you are both getting your nutrient on in large enough quantity for good crop? Our property has been continuously cropped for over 60 years but we do have sometimes white clover or grass seed in the rotation on silt loam soils (that when we cultivated, would produce very large Clods that if not dealt with, quickly would dry into large rocks). When we cultivated Our soils in the dry they would open up so you could put your whole hand down a crack in the soil! Since we have been direct drilling, capping is no longer a problem but when we used the cross slot a large new disc had to be used to get it to turn in our soils so if we got dry , the crack would open up severely. Maybe now we have been using the Dale for so long that wouldn't be a problem. From looking at the weaving gd this doesn't look to be a problem but would be interested in your comments on this.
We sow our grass either into barley stubble or 13 tonne / ha wheat crops with all residue chopped and spread. The grass is either for seed or often sown as cover crop to be used for lamb fattening over winter before going into peas or green leaf mustard for seed. Have you both used other notill drills prior to the weaving and how do you rate it in comparison?
 

Cutlerstom

Member
Arable Farmer
Thanks for both of your replies once again. Not sure how you are both getting your nutrient on in large enough quantity for good crop? Our property has been continuously cropped for over 60 years but we do have sometimes white clover or grass seed in the rotation on silt loam soils (that when we cultivated, would produce very large Clods that if not dealt with, quickly would dry into large rocks). When we cultivated Our soils in the dry they would open up so you could put your whole hand down a crack in the soil! Since we have been direct drilling, capping is no longer a problem but when we used the cross slot a large new disc had to be used to get it to turn in our soils so if we got dry , the crack would open up severely. Maybe now we have been using the Dale for so long that wouldn't be a problem. From looking at the weaving gd this doesn't look to be a problem but would be interested in your comments on this.
We sow our grass either into barley stubble or 13 tonne / ha wheat crops with all residue chopped and spread. The grass is either for seed or often sown as cover crop to be used for lamb fattening over winter before going into peas or green leaf mustard for seed. Have you both used other notill drills prior to the weaving and how do you rate it in comparison?
We also get very large cracks during dry periods, but most of the land we farm doesn't suffer from capping. I have found the slot does open slightly if you get prolonged drought after drilling with the GD. Especially if it was wetter than ideal when drilling. However, because of the angle of the slot, this doesn't seem to matter as the seed doesn't become exposed.
Is putting the fertiliser on with the seed so important? I've experimented with primary p on OSR, but other than that don't put anything on until spring - it is illegal to apply N in the autumn to cereals where I farm. Aside from it being another operation, how much difference does spinning fertiliser on just after or just before drilling?
I only tried the JD750a drill. On my soils type this didn't close the slot as well as the weaving did, which is why I went for the weaving. However I did prefer the seed placement of the JD as the depth wheel and coulter are next to each other, and the firming wheel...whereas on the weaving the depth wheel is behind the seeding coulter
 

Richard III

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
CW5 Cheshire
Thanks for both of your replies once again. Not sure how you are both getting your nutrient on in large enough quantity for good crop? Our property has been continuously cropped for over 60 years but we do have sometimes white clover or grass seed in the rotation on silt loam soils (that when we cultivated, would produce very large Clods that if not dealt with, quickly would dry into large rocks). When we cultivated Our soils in the dry they would open up so you could put your whole hand down a crack in the soil! Since we have been direct drilling, capping is no longer a problem but when we used the cross slot a large new disc had to be used to get it to turn in our soils so if we got dry , the crack would open up severely. Maybe now we have been using the Dale for so long that wouldn't be a problem. From looking at the weaving gd this doesn't look to be a problem but would be interested in your comments on this.
We sow our grass either into barley stubble or 13 tonne / ha wheat crops with all residue chopped and spread. The grass is either for seed or often sown as cover crop to be used for lamb fattening over winter before going into peas or green leaf mustard for seed. Have you both used other notill drills prior to the weaving and how do you rate it in comparison?

Moisture is rarely far away where I farm, so most nutrients are surface applied. The only exception is there can be a benefit from banding phosphate on occasion, particularly for oilseed rape.

I started off with a SimTec Tsem, which uses the Aitchison T Boot and a very old Moore Unidrill. The SimTec is for drilling cover crops and OSR into chopped straw in the autumn. I swapped the Unidrill for the Weaving, as the Moore struggled to sow large seeded beans in the spring and moved more soil than I ideally liked. The Weaving is an improvement all round on the Unidrill, it will drill in wetter soil, closes the slot better and moves much less soil. However if I had to drill grass or clover into chopped straw I would still use my SimTec, so would use a tine just as you are currently.
 

kiwi

Member
Thanks again for your replies. I have experimented with no nitrogen down the spout in the spring with the seedhawk Tyne when sowing barley under sowed with white clover. Sometimes it works just fine but if we have a dry spell at the time of drilling or for a few weeks after I have found broadcast N is lost to the atmosphere and the crop really suffers . Hence I always like to make sure I sow N when drilling in the spring. Autumn sowing is different as the window for N seems to be longer and conditions cooler with more heavy dews. Our base fertility for P and K is very high so not so necessary to put down the spout. Maybe if I went the weaving Gd route we need to keep the seedhawk to cover ourselves but I like the look of the weaving very low disturbance for reducing our herbicide bill overtime. The old locals in our area say if you took all the weed seeds out of our soil it would drop a foot!!
I had the impression from the sales pitch that the weaving was an all round no tillage machine but maybe that is not quite the case in relation to sowing very small seeds.
Interesting you are not allowed to sow N down the spout in the autumn as here the authorities seem keen for us to use the this new overseer model to count our N losses over a year and that still allows N use in the autumn. The use of overseer then allocates N use to each farm based on historical use so dairy farms end up with a lot higher N allocation than cropping farms.( called grandfathering of N rights ).
 

Cutlerstom

Member
Arable Farmer
Thanks again for your replies. I have experimented with no nitrogen down the spout in the spring with the seedhawk Tyne when sowing barley under sowed with white clover. Sometimes it works just fine but if we have a dry spell at the time of drilling or for a few weeks after I have found broadcast N is lost to the atmosphere and the crop really suffers . Hence I always like to make sure I sow N when drilling in the spring. Autumn sowing is different as the window for N seems to be longer and conditions cooler with more heavy dews. Our base fertility for P and K is very high so not so necessary to put down the spout. Maybe if I went the weaving Gd route we need to keep the seedhawk to cover ourselves but I like the look of the weaving very low disturbance for reducing our herbicide bill overtime. The old locals in our area say if you took all the weed seeds out of our soil it would drop a foot!!
I had the impression from the sales pitch that the weaving was an all round no tillage machine but maybe that is not quite the case in relation to sowing very small seeds.
Interesting you are not allowed to sow N down the spout in the autumn as here the authorities seem keen for us to use the this new overseer model to count our N losses over a year and that still allows N use in the autumn. The use of overseer then allocates N use to each farm based on historical use so dairy farms end up with a lot higher N allocation than cropping farms.( called grandfathering of N rights ).
We have areas called "nitrate vulnerable zones" where we are not allowed to apply autumn N to crops except osr we can put 30kgs N on. The thinking of the environment agency is that a brassica will use this N in the Autumn whereas a cereal won't and it will leach. It's a challenge for mininmum soil disturbance if you farm in one of these zones as no N is mineralised so crops are slow to start and backwards all winter
 

Will7

Member
IMG_0894.JPG IMG_0892.JPG IMG_0890.JPG This was drilled with a GD demo on the 28th March. It is spring barley (Planet 185kg/ha)) direct into chopped spring barley stubble on heavy land. You can still see the thatch of chopped straw on the floor. The rest of the field was drilled 4 days later with the seedhawk and is just coming through.

The first picture is drilled into a permenant tramline which has been there 4 yrs.

I am really impressed with the outcome, more than I was with the demo at the time, although I still have reservations. Mainly the amount of force required for the drill to penetrate is a concern.
 
View attachment 502424 View attachment 502420 View attachment 502422 This was drilled with a GD demo on the 28th March. It is spring barley (Planet 185kg/ha)) direct into chopped spring barley stubble on heavy land. You can still see the thatch of chopped straw on the floor. The rest of the field was drilled 4 days later with the seedhawk and is just coming through.

The first picture is drilled into a permenant tramline which has been there 4 yrs.

I am really impressed with the outcome, more than I was with the demo at the time, although I still have reservations. Mainly the amount of force required for the drill to penetrate is a concern.

Looks good. I think the Weaving does cope with chopped straw better than the JD. I also think the slot closure is better on heavy land. As you say, down-force is the major concern.
 

Cutlerstom

Member
Arable Farmer
Looks good. I think the Weaving does cope with chopped straw better than the JD. I also think the slot closure is better on heavy land. As you say, down-force is the major concern.
Downforce must be a concern with any direct disc drill? I suspect the 4m trailed GD will be best if that's a concern.
 

Cutlerstom

Member
Arable Farmer
I think because of inherent differences in design that the 750a is better in this respect.
Get 2.5 ton in the hopper of the GD and the transport wheels right off the ground..... If it stays dry, it'll be interesting to see if I can get my game covers in with a mostly empty hopper
 

kiwi

Member
Does the weaving have any down force meter to allow automatic adjustment of downforce?. That seems to be an issue with lots of disc drills although cross slot have overcome this issue with measuring down force and automatically compensating. At the same time it does mean weighting up the disc drill a whole lot more than we need to for a Tyne drill.
Are you sowing small seeds for your game covers Cutlerstorm? If so would be interested to see how you get on.
 

Will7

Member
Does the weaving have any down force meter to allow automatic adjustment of downforce?. That seems to be an issue with lots of disc drills although cross slot have overcome this issue with measuring down force and automatically compensating. At the same time it does mean weighting up the disc drill a whole lot more than we need to for a Tyne drill.
Are you sowing small seeds for your game covers Cutlerstorm? If so would be interested to see how you get on.
I believe they have fitted a system like this to a couple of machines but feel it is unnecessary.
 

Steevo

Member
Location
Gloucestershire
I had a demo of a GD last week and was very impressed. Trailed 6m didn't struggle at all getting the seed in the ground and the right depth. Closed the "slot" easily and you couldn't see where it has been.

First disc drill on this farm ever, and thought I was sceptical I came away very impressed indeed.
 

Cutlerstom

Member
Arable Farmer
Does the weaving have any down force meter to allow automatic adjustment of downforce?. That seems to be an issue with lots of disc drills although cross slot have overcome this issue with measuring down force and automatically compensating. At the same time it does mean weighting up the disc drill a whole lot more than we need to for a Tyne drill.
Are you sowing small seeds for your game covers Cutlerstorm? If so would be interested to see how you get on.
Biggest problem is that with any system you can only transfer what weight you have in the first place, which you point out. If it's really hard you would have to keep the hopper full of seed, keep topping it up to prevent the downforce dropping off. I've not experienced that need as yet. Last year the first job I did when receiving my drill was to put game covers in, including some millet and sorghum and yellow blossom clover. It was fine. But this year there will be more trash - standing maize from last year. We'll see...
 

RBM

Member
Arable Farmer
Had an excellent demo of a GD on spring barley this spring and crop emergence looks superb. I went round the Agrovista lamport trial last week and I'm amazed how relaxed they are about open slots! Saw several plots with the Great Plains where slots were completely open and you can see all the seed, establishment was still decent in several of them though. But I would be a bit concerned about open slots in a dry time like we have at the moment.
 
Had an excellent demo of a GD on spring barley this spring and crop emergence looks superb. I went round the Agrovista lamport trial last week and I'm amazed how relaxed they are about open slots! Saw several plots with the Great Plains where slots were completely open and you can see all the seed, establishment was still decent in several of them though. But I would be a bit concerned about open slots in a dry time like we have at the moment.

Lots of the time an open slot may not be an issue. But sometimes it is. So it better to be able to shut them
 

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