Weaving GD user thread

Warnesworth

Member
BASE UK Member
Location
Chipping Norton
WTF would I want to Plough or Min-till any of this for?
View attachment 991267
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I estimate probably IRO £75/acre less establishment costs and a busting lot of time.

For sale from this farm shortly:
1 x KV LS95 5 furrow Reversible plough, Number 29 bodies.
1 x Dowdeswell adjustable (up to 3 metres) width Furrow Press.
1 x 3 metre Sumo Trio.
1 x 4 metre Kuhn 4004 Power-Harrow.
1 x 4 metre LC4000 Kuhn Combi-liner system-disc Combi-drill mounted on another Kuhn 4004 PH, Quantron S2 controller.
1 x 6.3 metre Mas-Stig hydraulic folding Cambridge Rolls.
1 x 4 metre SKH Crumbler.
1 x 3 metre set of MF Disc harrows.
1 x pair Alliance 800 wide wheels to fit JCB Fastrac (10 hole centres), 95% tread. No more plough/min-till = no more ruts!
1 x pair Michelin XM 620/70 R42 Stocks Dual wheels with 8 clamps and eyes.
1 x 5 metre set of Ransomes Spring-tines, Hydraulic folding.
1 x 6 metre set of Ransomes mounted folding zig-zag harrows.

None of which now needed thanks to my Weaving GD.
But don’t tell anybody that!

I appreciate this is slightly antagonistic and I apologise in advance whole-heartedly, but I think you can take the joke. I read your post above and all I think of is the post below.
But fair play to you, you listened, looked, tried and succeeded. Just don't be in a hurry to get rid of it all straight away.....


I’ve tried ploughing, min till and no till. Most of the time ploughing our heavy land is the only thing that works and gives us our best Blackgrass control.
The govt would have to give me one hell of an incentive to stop ploughing.

I noticed a guy from Soil First Farming at Chpping Norton in the Opinions section of FW having a go at David Richardson about ploughing heavy land.

All I can say is he hasn’t tried farming the land our side of Chipping Norton. His no till ideas might work on the Banbury Ironstone / Cotswold brash side of it, but they absolutely do not work on the Warwickshire clay side of it in a year like this.
 

Two Tone

Member
Mixed Farmer
I appreciate this is slightly antagonistic and I apologise in advance whole-heartedly, but I think you can take the joke. I read your post above and all I think of is the post below.
But fair play to you, you listened, looked, tried and succeeded. Just don't be in a hurry to get rid of it all straight away.....
No offence taken whatsoever @Warnesworth .

All I can say is that the very quote you show, encouraged us to meet, have a very interesting conversation which lead to where and what I’m doing now.
Why?
Because it was logical and all made sense.
Also helped by every other TFF member contributors to this thread who don’t actually use a Weaving GD, such as @Clive, @ajd132 , @Brisel and @SilliamWhale as well as other Zero-til thread contributors.

I’ve just returned from a weekend in North Suffolk, South Norfolk being me old stamping ground.
Land which I know is far more suited to a Zero-til type farming system than here.
Having been a Zero-til sceptic, but having tried it with success so far, I found myself somewhat appalled with lack of enthusiasm towards the system there and from what I could see, wall-to-wall ploughing that has prevailed this year.
Having enquired as to why, the general excuse is that earlier lack of moisture since harvest to promote a Blackgrass/volunteers flush, encouraged many to press the “reset” button and plough it all!

The real reason I believe that many have ploughed, is that this is how they always did it, it worked and they are reluctant to change.
If they can afford to continue to do it that way, no doubt encouraged by high cereal prices, then fine…………….
EXCEPT for one thing: CLIMATE CHANGE.


Now, I converted/am in conversion for pure financial/business reasons and initially, environmental reasons were not a major part of my reasoning for doing so.
But when I explain it to any non-farming person or people, this is the first thing that excites them and all their eyes immediately light up!


As to whether or not I should get rid of all my conventional kit, just in case I needed to press the reset button occasionally, this is a bit of a dilemma for me.
But I am convinced that the new system does and will work, IF we can use it in the right conditions. Those conditions tend to be there early, which suits me fine.
However, I (not the farm!) will be keeping my working classic KV Auto reset plough that goes on my working classic NH 8340 tractor for nostalgia reasons, just like the old tractor you show in your avatar …………..
and just in case…………!


P.S.
There is one other person that I absolutely must mention and thank, who helped and encouraged me make the decision to convert:
Professor / Dr. (Edward) John Wibberley
 
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ajd132

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Suffolk
No offence taken whatsoever @Warnesworth .

All I can say is that the very quote you show, encouraged us to meet, have a very interesting conversation which lead to where and what I’m doing now.
Why?
Because it was logical and all made sense.
Also helped by every other TFF member contributors to this thread who don’t actually use a Weaving GD, such as @Clive, @ajd132 , @Brisel and @SilliamWhale as well as other Zero-til thread contributors.

I’ve just returned from a weekend in North Suffolk, South Norfolk being me old stamping ground.
Land which I know is far more suited to a Zero-til type farming system than here.
Having been a Zero-til sceptic, but having tried it with success so far, I found myself somewhat appalled with lack of enthusiasm towards the system there and from what I could see, wall-to-wall ploughing that has prevailed this year.
Having enquired as to why, the general excuse is that earlier lack of moisture since harvest to promote a Blackgrass/volunteers flush, encouraged many to press the “reset” button and plough it all!

The real reason I believe that many have ploughed, is that this is how they always did it, it worked and they are reluctant to change.
If they can afford to do so, no doubt encouraged by high cereal prices, then fine…………….
EXCEPT for one thing: CLIMATE CHANGE.


Now, I converted/am in conversion for pure financial/business reasons and initially, environmental reasons were not a major part of my reasoning for doing so.
But when I explain it to any non-farming person or people, this is the first thing that excites them and all their eyes immediately light up!


As to whether or not I should get rid of all my conventional kit, just in case I needed to press the rest button occasionally, this is a bit of a dilemma for me.
But I am convinced that the new system does and will work, IF we can use it in the right conditions. Those conditions tend to be there early, which suits me fine.
However, I (not the farm!) will be keeping my working classic KV Auto reset plough that goes on my working classic NH 8340 tractor for nostalgia reasons, just like the old tractor you show in your avatar …………..
and just in case…………!


P.S.
There is one other person that I absolutely must mention and thank, who helped and encouraged me make the decision to convert:
Professor / Dr. (Edward) John Wibberley
Good to see it’s going well.
You do need a thick skin sometimes. I get quite a lot of stick for it apparently looking a mess compared to ploughed and min tilled stuff.
I generally just smile as I know it will yield the same if not better and my operating machinery over heads are £100-200/ha less, my input use is slowly coming down but that’s much more of a slow burner in terms of savings, I can sell carbon sequestration for £50-100/ha as it currently stands, we can max out future SFI if they sort it out as we are already doing all the things they want comfortably, another £150/ha? Oh and add CS/SFI cover crops which is another £90/ha net gain?
The fact is it stacks up before the extras if you get it right. The absolute Over riding key on this soil is drainage/ditches/moling etc.
I am not anti cultivation or ploughing whatsoever. I just think 90% of the time it’s done for no reason other than habit and a feeling of safety.
 

Badshot

Member
Location
Kent
No offence taken whatsoever @Warnesworth .

All I can say is that the very quote you show, encouraged us to meet, have a very interesting conversation which lead to where and what I’m doing now.
Why?
Because it was logical and all made sense.
Also helped by every other TFF member contributors to this thread who don’t actually use a Weaving GD, such as @Clive, @ajd132 , @Brisel and @SilliamWhale as well as other Zero-til thread contributors.

I’ve just returned from a weekend in North Suffolk, South Norfolk being me old stamping ground.
Land which I know is far more suited to a Zero-til type farming system than here.
Having been a Zero-til sceptic, but having tried it with success so far, I found myself somewhat appalled with lack of enthusiasm towards the system there and from what I could see, wall-to-wall ploughing that has prevailed this year.
Having enquired as to why, the general excuse is that earlier lack of moisture since harvest to promote a Blackgrass/volunteers flush, encouraged many to press the “reset” button and plough it all!

The real reason I believe that many have ploughed, is that this is how they always did it, it worked and they are reluctant to change.
If they can afford to continue to do it that way, no doubt encouraged by high cereal prices, then fine…………….
EXCEPT for one thing: CLIMATE CHANGE.


Now, I converted/am in conversion for pure financial/business reasons and initially, environmental reasons were not a major part of my reasoning for doing so.
But when I explain it to any non-farming person or people, this is the first thing that excites them and all their eyes immediately light up!


As to whether or not I should get rid of all my conventional kit, just in case I needed to press the reset button occasionally, this is a bit of a dilemma for me.
But I am convinced that the new system does and will work, IF we can use it in the right conditions. Those conditions tend to be there early, which suits me fine.
However, I (not the farm!) will be keeping my working classic KV Auto reset plough that goes on my working classic NH 8340 tractor for nostalgia reasons, just like the old tractor you show in your avatar …………..
and just in case…………!


P.S.
There is one other person that I absolutely must mention and thank, who helped and encouraged me make the decision to convert:
Professor / Dr. (Edward) John Wibberley
My advice would be get a sabretine when you sell your kit.
It will allow you to drill in the wet times when the gd isn't able to.
Although the gd will go in conditions that are unbelievable, the tine will produce a better stand in those conditions.
Still no need for the plough here.
I've still got the kv tineseeder I adapted which got me on the road to DD.
 

redsloe

Member
Location
Cornwall
I’m wondering if it’s more beneficial to go from plough or subsoiler based system to the Claydon type machine before going to the GD.
I've done that.
Overall I'm delighted, I've drilled straight into cereal stubbles, maize, grass, but......

It's only my second season and I have a ley field that I drilled oats into last autumn perfectly but this year the tines want to drag up debris so I've left it to die down over winter.
Obviously I didn't anticipate so many grass volunteers in the crop and I was reluctant to add liquid sunshine and it was probably the wrong choice of crop but it fitted in nicely..........🤦

I think a GD would have drilled into it.

What problems, if any are you having that you think a strip till drill would make a better stepping stone out of interest?
 

sjt01

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
North Norfolk
My advice would be get a sabretine when you sell your kit.
It will allow you to drill in the wet times when the gd isn't able to.
Although the gd will go in conditions that are unbelievable, the tine will produce a better stand in those conditions.
Still no need for the plough here.
I've still got the kv tineseeder I adapted which got me on the road to DD.
In our first year, we got a GD and it did an excellent job of cover crops and cereals but could not get the beans deep enough. The following year we saw @Bob lincs Sabre tine conversion on a KV cultivator so got that for the beans. Inter-row spacing was much greater than the Weaving Sabre drill, so it cleared maize stubble and maize stalks well. We then tried it on the barley and grass reseeds, and decided to sell the GD, which was starting to look expensive for consumables on our abrasive flinty soil.
The biggest drawback with the Sabre is lifting big flints onto the surface, but I reckon after a few years of manual collection that should almost stop.
We are so pleased with the Sabre results on beans that we intend to try it on maize next Spring. It would be really good if we could replace our Duro + rotavator + Monosem maize drilling setup.
 

Adeptandy

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
PE15
I've done that.
Overall I'm delighted, I've drilled straight into cereal stubbles, maize, grass, but......

It's only my second season and I have a ley field that I drilled oats into last autumn perfectly but this year the tines want to drag up debris so I've left it to die down over winter.
Obviously I didn't anticipate so many grass volunteers in the crop and I was reluctant to add liquid sunshine and it was probably the wrong choice of crop but it fitted in nicely..........🤦

I think a GD would have drilled into it.

What problems, if any are you having that you think a strip till drill would make a better stepping stone out of interest?
My early observations are a corrugation effect of the soil with wheelings going straight to the GD
 

E_B

Member
Location
Norfolk
No offence taken whatsoever @Warnesworth .

All I can say is that the very quote you show, encouraged us to meet, have a very interesting conversation which lead to where and what I’m doing now.
Why?
Because it was logical and all made sense.
Also helped by every other TFF member contributors to this thread who don’t actually use a Weaving GD, such as @Clive, @ajd132 , @Brisel and @SilliamWhale as well as other Zero-til thread contributors.

I’ve just returned from a weekend in North Suffolk, South Norfolk being me old stamping ground.
Land which I know is far more suited to a Zero-til type farming system than here.
Having been a Zero-til sceptic, but having tried it with success so far, I found myself somewhat appalled with lack of enthusiasm towards the system there and from what I could see, wall-to-wall ploughing that has prevailed this year.
Having enquired as to why, the general excuse is that earlier lack of moisture since harvest to promote a Blackgrass/volunteers flush, encouraged many to press the “reset” button and plough it all!

The real reason I believe that many have ploughed, is that this is how they always did it, it worked and they are reluctant to change.
If they can afford to continue to do it that way, no doubt encouraged by high cereal prices, then fine…………….
EXCEPT for one thing: CLIMATE CHANGE.


Now, I converted/am in conversion for pure financial/business reasons and initially, environmental reasons were not a major part of my reasoning for doing so.
But when I explain it to any non-farming person or people, this is the first thing that excites them and all their eyes immediately light up!


As to whether or not I should get rid of all my conventional kit, just in case I needed to press the reset button occasionally, this is a bit of a dilemma for me.
But I am convinced that the new system does and will work, IF we can use it in the right conditions. Those conditions tend to be there early, which suits me fine.
However, I (not the farm!) will be keeping my working classic KV Auto reset plough that goes on my working classic NH 8340 tractor for nostalgia reasons, just like the old tractor you show in your avatar …………..
and just in case…………!


P.S.
There is one other person that I absolutely must mention and thank, who helped and encouraged me make the decision to convert:
Professor / Dr. (Edward) John Wibberley

Just for balance, there are quite a few farmers in both South Norfolk and North Suffolk doing strip till or no tillage. In fact, I would say it's the Washington County of the UK.
 

Farmer Bill

Member
Location
Dorset
Read this thread with interest.
How are GD users getting on if they have flinty soils?
We are light land with masses of flint, some large.
Been direct drilling for many years, only with tine drills. Currently running a Horsch Sprinter
Decided to make the jump into cover crops and no disturbance and eventually trying to chop all straw, currently just chop all wheat straw.
Any thoughts much appreciated
 

Warnesworth

Member
BASE UK Member
Location
Chipping Norton
No offence taken whatsoever @Warnesworth .

All I can say is that the very quote you show, encouraged us to meet, have a very interesting conversation which lead to where and what I’m doing now.
Why?
Because it was logical and all made sense.
Also helped by every other TFF member contributors to this thread who don’t actually use a Weaving GD, such as @Clive, @ajd132 , @Brisel and @SilliamWhale as well as other Zero-til thread contributors.

I’ve just returned from a weekend in North Suffolk, South Norfolk being me old stamping ground.
Land which I know is far more suited to a Zero-til type farming system than here.
Having been a Zero-til sceptic, but having tried it with success so far, I found myself somewhat appalled with lack of enthusiasm towards the system there and from what I could see, wall-to-wall ploughing that has prevailed this year.
Having enquired as to why, the general excuse is that earlier lack of moisture since harvest to promote a Blackgrass/volunteers flush, encouraged many to press the “reset” button and plough it all!

The real reason I believe that many have ploughed, is that this is how they always did it, it worked and they are reluctant to change.
If they can afford to continue to do it that way, no doubt encouraged by high cereal prices, then fine…………….
EXCEPT for one thing: CLIMATE CHANGE.


Now, I converted/am in conversion for pure financial/business reasons and initially, environmental reasons were not a major part of my reasoning for doing so.
But when I explain it to any non-farming person or people, this is the first thing that excites them and all their eyes immediately light up!


As to whether or not I should get rid of all my conventional kit, just in case I needed to press the reset button occasionally, this is a bit of a dilemma for me.
But I am convinced that the new system does and will work, IF we can use it in the right conditions. Those conditions tend to be there early, which suits me fine.
However, I (not the farm!) will be keeping my working classic KV Auto reset plough that goes on my working classic NH 8340 tractor for nostalgia reasons, just like the old tractor you show in your avatar …………..
and just in case…………!


P.S.
There is one other person that I absolutely must mention and thank, who helped and encouraged me make the decision to convert:
Professor / Dr. (Edward) John Wibberley
John Wibberley as in he who wrote ‘Cereal Husbandry’. Is he still with us? Great book by the way, still have a copy.
 

Two Tone

Member
Mixed Farmer
John Wibberley as in he who wrote ‘Cereal Husbandry’. Is he still with us? Great book by the way, still have a copy.
Yes, still with us. He’s 74.
A very big advocate of Regen Ag too. A real farming hero in my book.

He is the sort of bloke who won’t necessarily tell you what you are doing might be wrong, but will subtly suggest there might be a better way.
 
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Read this thread with interest.
How are GD users getting on if they have flinty soils?
We are light land with masses of flint, some large.
Been direct drilling for many years, only with tine drills. Currently running a Horsch Sprinter
Decided to make the jump into cover crops and no disturbance and eventually trying to chop all straw, currently just chop all wheat straw.
Any thoughts much appreciated
Lots of stones and flint here. After 1300 ha discs has been changed on my 6m GD.
When I used a tine seeder, some farmers without many stones had up to 4x as much ha before changing, so I think it is fine.
Included was 2018 where soil was totally dry and hard here - it was extreme.
It can seem expensive, but in No-till there is no other wear parts for cultivators and only 5-6 l diesel use /ha. In the price is it worth to notify: discs are with bearings included. Double disc yes, but no costs for changing seed tubes. Very easy to change discs.
And no bearings in the moving parts just teflon (i think) which is also easy to change.
Also: No-till = no more work for stone collecting. Nice, and the combine likes it!
 

Badshot

Member
Location
Kent
Personally, the stones blunt the discs quickly.
So if there's lots of chopped straw to cut through its not so good.
I just changed discs on my 3m gd, almost stone free but not quite, 1150ha.
 

Badshot

Member
Location
Kent
How far can you wear down the discs before changing?
It gets to the point you can't shim them to touch anymore.

I'm currently using the worn serrated discs as the small disc. I wore it about 5mm too far to be ideal, ( had someone else drilling while I was combining) if you wanted to do this, wear the serrated ones until they're slightly larger than new small ones. Have done about 360 acres with them now, no bother at all. Saves a decent amount on replacing the small discs too.
 

EddieB

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Staffs
Well the remainder of my wheat seed has arrived to coincide with monsoon like rain. Dry forecast from this afternoon until Sunday so I will see if the ground dries up enough to allow me to get finished before then. First season so still learning when the GD will and won’t operate successfully.
 

Two Tone

Member
Mixed Farmer
Well the remainder of my wheat seed has arrived to coincide with monsoon like rain. Dry forecast from this afternoon until Sunday so I will see if the ground dries up enough to allow me to get finished before then. First season so still learning when the GD will and won’t operate successfully.
Did you usually conventionally drills out now?
There are plenty of others on this forum with far more experience than me.
However, you can drill earlier, because not disturbing the soil won’t release nutrients so freely and early, therefore you need more time for the crop to establish.
I also wouldn’t use and sort of subsoiler, unless it was absolutely necessary and then the lowest disturbance subsoiler you can find.
Not disturbing the soil may also allows a reduction in the amount of pre-em herbicide usage too.

But, don’t worry, we all have to start somewhere and what suits your farm, might not necessarily suit everyone’s.
The principals should be the same though.

I have also found that by not disturbing any soil ahead of the drill, it will take a surprisingly large amount of wet weather and it will travel very much sooner in the Autumn than if you had disturbed it.
However, don’t create a slot without being able to close it, then apply pre-ems. If you do this, those pre-ems will wash into the slot and severely hammer the crop.
I split my pre-ems in half this year to avoid any risk of this happening, even though slot closure was good.
The bonus to me being that in 75% of the cases, 1/2 rate pre-em has done such a good job, that we don’t expect to need to put that other 1/2 rate on. This is because by disturbing so little ground, the Blackgrass stayed asleep.

However again, Earlier drilling usually means drilling into much better soil conditions that will give much better slot closure, reducing the risk of pre-em damage to the crop.
 

clbarclay

Member
Location
Worcestershire
It gets to the point you can't shim them to touch anymore.

I'm currently using the worn serrated discs as the small disc. I wore it about 5mm too far to be ideal, ( had someone else drilling while I was combining) if you wanted to do this, wear the serrated ones until they're slightly larger than new small ones. Have done about 360 acres with them now, no bother at all. Saves a decent amount on replacing the small discs too.
I did wonder whether or not the discs could be worn quite a bit further past that point. I'm only about half worn at the moment before my larger discs are small disc size, but good to know and I'll keep that slightly larger than new little discs in mind.
 

EddieB

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Staffs
Did you usually conventionally drills out now?
There are plenty of others on this forum with far more experience than me.
However, you can drill earlier, because not disturbing the soil won’t release nutrients so freely and early, therefore you need more time for the crop to establish.
I also wouldn’t use and sort of subsoiler, unless it was absolutely necessary and then the lowest disturbance subsoiler you can find.
Not disturbing the soil may also allows a reduction in the amount of pre-em herbicide usage too.

But, don’t worry, we all have to start somewhere and what suits your farm, might not necessarily suit everyone’s.
The principals should be the same though.

I have also found that by not disturbing any soil ahead of the drill, it will take a surprisingly large amount of wet weather and it will travel very much sooner in the Autumn than if you had disturbed it.
However, don’t create a slot without being able to close it, then apply pre-ems. If you do this, those pre-ems will wash into the slot and severely hammer the crop.
I split my pre-ems in half this year to avoid any risk of this happening, even though slot closure was good.
The bonus to me being that in 75% of the cases, 1/2 rate pre-em has done such a good job, that we don’t expect to need to put that other 1/2 rate on. This is because by disturbing so little ground, the Blackgrass stayed asleep.

However again, Earlier drilling usually means drilling into much better soil conditions that will give much better slot closure, reducing the risk of pre-em damage to the crop.

I have been using a Mzuri for the previous three years and decided to make the switch to lower disturbance.
I would like to have been drilling earlier but had no seed arrive in good time this autumn which is very frustrating. I grow nearly everything on seed contracts but this situation has made me wonder if I would be better off just growing commercial crops using HSS.
 

Top cereal and oilseed growers honoured at the Yield Enhancement Network Awards 2021

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Despite an average growing year for most crops, many growers managed to go above and beyond their predicted max yields, with Lincolnshire grower Tim Lamyman taking the top spots for his wheat yields and his world record breaking winter barley yield.

The highest cereal and oilseed yields achieved at harvest 2021 were announced at this year’s Yield Enhancement Network (YEN) Awards on Wednesday 24th November at the Croptec Show. With award presentations by Tom Bradshaw, Vice President of NFU, 24 farms took home the evening’s top awards for highest yield and highest potential yield achieved for wheat, winter and spring barley, oats, and oilseed. The 2021 winners came from all corners of the UK, as well as from as far afield as Finland and New Zealand.

Familiar names from 2020 made the...
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