Weight calculations........

[mf7480]

I don’t think it needs to be that complicated. Tell us what the tractor and plough is and you’ll get some educated guesses of what weight you need on the front

 

[Netherfield]

I get very angry when I hear some prat saying how little use maths is apart from basic Arithmetic. I have used maths all my life when farming and this applies to a huge number of professions.
I cannot remember any situation when Shakespeare has had any use at all, yet kids spend years studying this Tudor playwright, just to make a quote in an end of year exam.

The way some people spell, I don't think they took much notice in English either

 

[Skimmer]

http://www.jupidex.co.za/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/KV-Mounted-Reversible-Ploughs-2018-EN.pdf Does this help. page 58

 

[DanniAgro]

Blimey, my ploughing isn't ..quite.. so good as that on page 23.

 

[7610 super q]

 

[hillbill]

Many thanks for your comments and help. Ill explain a little more. Iam not fitting a extra furrow to my plough, i wanted to know what extra theoretical weight would be imposed on the tractor and also more importantly the plough headstock if i had. Iam in the early stages of converting a kverneland packomat to fit my plough, and was tryin to compare the weight between adding a 6th furrow, and the packomat. I think the pacomat will be lighter, but was attempting to work it out in a scientific way........

 

[yorkie]

Many thanks for your comments and help. Ill explain a little more. Iam not fitting a extra furrow to my plough, i wanted to know what extra theoretical weight would be imposed on the tractor and also more importantly the plough headstock if i had. Iam in the early stages of converting a kverneland packomat to fit my plough, and was tryin to compare the weight between adding a 6th furrow, and the packomat. I think the pacomat will be lighter, but was attempting to work it out in a scientific way........

6 furrow dowdswell ,1mtr between points and 1mtr point to beam puts 7.5 tons on the back axel when lifted done on a weigh bridge

 

[mo!]

Many thanks for your comments and help. Ill explain a little more. Iam not fitting a extra furrow to my plough, i wanted to know what extra theoretical weight would be imposed on the tractor and also more importantly the plough headstock if i had. Iam in the early stages of converting a kverneland packomat to fit my plough, and was tryin to compare the weight between adding a 6th furrow, and the packomat. I think the pacomat will be lighter, but was attempting to work it out in a scientific way........

Ring KV. They will know.

 

[David.]

6 furrow dowdswell ,1mtr between points and 1mtr point to beam puts 7.5 tons on the back axel when lifted done on a weigh bridge

That is scary. Do you actually mean the tractor and raised plough combination goes 7500kg on back axle, or do you mean the mounted plough when it is raised on a weighbridge, transfers an extra 7500kg to the rear axle?
Nobody has yet mentioned the extra dynamic loading imposed as the fully weighted tractor bounces along the road, and the front tries to lift.

 

[yellowbelly]

I have used maths all my life when farming and this applies to a huge number of professions.
I cannot remember any situation when Shakespeare has had any use at all,

Here's the only use I ever found for old Will and the rest of O level Eng Lit.....

 

[Spud]

@hillbill first you need a KV plough for said Packomat...

Packomat won't add the weight that an extra furrow will, because its not as far back. The 6th furrow on our 5+1 Dowdeswell DP120 is consigned to the nettles, it makes the thing too unwieldy, destroys depth wheel stops and gives the impression it will do to top links what a Sumo does.
You need to join the semi mounted revolution!
To answer your question - given your ploughs are engineered rather than blacksmith by design, and tractors robust for the job, you needn't worry about lifting it. I'd be more concerned about how much earning time you spend swearing at it in the workshop trying to get the thing to fit - this side of 40 one loses enthusiasm for such headaches.
I guess you've had a price for a Flexpack and had to have a quiet sit in a dark room.....

 

[Will 1594]

Many thanks for your comments and help. Ill explain a little more. Iam not fitting a extra furrow to my plough, i wanted to know what extra theoretical weight would be imposed on the tractor and also more importantly the plough headstock if i had. Iam in the early stages of converting a kverneland packomat to fit my plough, and was tryin to compare the weight between adding a 6th furrow, and the packomat. I think the pacomat will be lighter, but was attempting to work it out in a scientific way........

We have 6 and packomat ,,its heavy , too the point that making a telescopic front weight because when you lift it you need exta weight to balance then when its down ploughing and over load front axle ,have made a trailer to transport plough tp other farm , 18 miles and front weight goes on it too ,
My opinion ,if you have decent fields and a good and i mean good ,not just a blackit ower man , buy a conventional press and arm ,your tractor and plough will bless you , ,and will do a better job on lighter soils pacomat good for knocking top off for winter or to hide bad set up
Quite happy to put our on bridge with and with out packer if you want to know weight transfer difference
Fukin heavy 6 and packer with soil on it ,
Ps i hate the bloody thing its next on the hit list ,had lemken On demo

 

[Spud]

We have 6 and packomat ,,its heavy , too the point that making a telescopic front weight because when you lift it you need exta weight to balance then when its down ploughing and over load front axle ,have made a trailer to transport plough tp other farm , 18 miles and front weight goes on it too ,
My opinion ,if you have decent fields and a good and i mean good ,not just a blackit ower man , buy a conventional press and arm ,your tractor and plough will bless you , ,and will do a better job on lighter soils pacomat good for knocking top off for winter or to hide bad set up
Quite happy to put our on bridge with and with out packer if you want to know weight transfer difference
Fukin heavy 6 and packer with soil on it ,

Wouldn't a semi mounted set up be far less hassle than all that messing on for an extra furrow?

 

[hillbill]

@hillbill first you need a KV plough for said Packomat...

Packomat won't add the weight that an extra furrow will, because its not as far back. The 6th furrow on our 5+1 Dowdeswell DP120 is consigned to the nettles, it makes the thing too unwieldy, destroys depth wheel stops and gives the impression it will do to top links what a Sumo does.
You need to join the semi mounted revolution!
To answer your question - given your ploughs are engineered rather than blacksmith by design, and tractors robust for the job, you needn't worry about lifting it. I'd be more concerned about how much earning time you spend swearing at it in the workshop trying to get the thing to fit - this side of 40 one loses enthusiasm for such headaches.
I guess you've had a price for a Flexpack and had to have a quiet sit in a dark room.....

Few things here. Ive not got, and not lijely to get a kv, as what i have (in my opinion) is as good if not better, however my current plough manufacturer doest even make press arms, we had to have one made. I aquired the packomat at a cost even youd be impressed with, and as the headstock arrangement is very similar to a kv, i reconed a day in the workshop could well be a productive one. And i dont own a blue plough any more to attach a flexpac to......

 

[hillbill]

We have 6 and packomat ,,its heavy , too the point that making a telescopic front weight because when you lift it you need exta weight to balance then when its down ploughing and over load front axle ,have made a trailer to transport plough tp other farm , 18 miles and front weight goes on it too ,
My opinion ,if you have decent fields and a good and i mean good ,not just a blackit ower man , buy a conventional press and arm ,your tractor and plough will bless you , ,and will do a better job on lighter soils pacomat good for knocking top off for winter or to hide bad set up
Quite happy to put our on bridge with and with out packer if you want to know weight transfer difference
Fukin heavy 6 and packer with soil on it ,
Ps i hate the bloody thing its next on the hit list ,had lemken ❤ On demo

We run a convetional lemken press now. And 75% of the time its ideal. However due to the nature of our work theres alot of moving about and small fields. I just thought that carrying the packomat with you would make life easier for hill sides, headlands, smaller fields etc. Plough tractor is more than man enough for it and confident that the plough will be also.

 

[Will 1594]

Wouldn't a semi mounted set up be far less hassle than all that messing on for an extra furrow?

Wish list spud but plenty small fields. It would make sense , trying to get demo. And have a good 4 furrow Rev we could do corners and small headlands

 

[Cowabunga]

The fact that i didnt listen at school 20some years ago has eventually caught up with me. So, essentially i need to find the formula to calculate the load gain on the tractor 3 pount linkage, by adding a extra furrow on the plough. If the extra furrow and disc weigh, hypothetically, 250kg, what extra load in kg would there be on the tractor end?
Cheers in advance.....

Isn't this a simple lever governed by this formula?….

In a class one lever the force of the effort (Fe) multiplied by the distance of the effort from the fulcrum (de) is equal to the force of the resistance (Fr) multiplied by the distance of the resistance from the fulcrum (dr). The effort and the resistance are on opposite sides of the fulcrum.

If so, and it looks like it to me, then the extra weight will simply be double the weight of the extra furrow on the back. The fulcrum in this case is not the linkage balls but the tractor's back axle centre line.

This measure should not be confused with the extra lift capacity required, which is complicated by top link angle and so on. For this measure I would not like to start working it out with my limited maths but as a rough calculation for the extra lift capacity required, I would again double the weight of the extra fitted to the rear of the plough. So add 250kgs at the back and assume that 500kgs extra lift capacity would be required, so not dissimilar to the extra load on the rear axle. The static load on the linkage would however be the same as the weight of the extra equipment at 250kgs.
However, this is a wild guess of mine which is worth exactly what you paid for it.

 

[yorkie]

That is scary. Do you actually mean the tractor and raised plough combination goes 7500kg on back axle, or do you mean the mounted plough when it is raised on a weighbridge, transfers an extra 7500kg to the rear axle?
Nobody has yet mentioned the extra dynamic loading imposed as the fully weighted tractor bounces along the road, and the front tries to lift.
[/QUOTEback wheels on Michelin mans weigh cells , plough on ground , weight taken , then plough raised and weight taken again , changes what pressure you need

 

[Spud]

Wish list spud but plenty small fields. It would make sense , trying to get demo. And have a good 4 furrow Rev we could do corners and small headlands

Our average field size is 11acres. 4+3 wagon plough doesn't need any bigger headland than we used for 5f mounted.
There will be a mathematical equation to calculate the pulling force no doubt, but we've found ploughing faster than about 8kph takes a lot more power than adding another furrow.
5+1 = +20% width, plus 20% less turning time, so effectively gain nearer 25% output depending on length of field.
5-6mph = 20% faster, lower quality work, harder on kit, no efficiency gained from turning.

We used to plough taty land with 2* 5fur ploughs, both 14", one on 200hp, the other on 160.
Years ago 4*14 was fine on 100hp on that job.
Last year we bought a 4+3 wagon plough (thanks for the heads up @hillbill ) which is hydraulic variwidth.

7.5 kph, 11" deep, 7*20" furrows on 200hp means the 160hp tractor now stays on the drag and the 200hp on the plough still has time to do most of the bedtilling. He's still as fast as the two 5f running together at 16" furrs, because theres less turning and less congestion on the headlands. In fairness its easier in spud fields because we don't plough the corners

 

[Zebbedee]

Our average field size is 11acres. 4+3 wagon plough doesn't need any bigger headland than we used for 5f mounted.
There will be a mathematical equation to calculate the pulling force no doubt, but we've found ploughing faster than about 8kph takes a lot more power than adding another furrow.
5+1 = +20% width, plus 20% less turning time, so effectively gain nearer 25% output depending on length of field.
5-6mph = 20% faster, lower quality work, harder on kit, no efficiency gained from turning.

We used to plough taty land with 2* 5fur ploughs, both 14", one on 200hp, the other on 160.
Years ago 4*14 was fine on 100hp on that job.
Last year we bought a 4+3 wagon plough (thanks for the heads up @hillbill ) which is hydraulic variwidth.

7.5 kph, 11" deep, 7*20" furrows on 200hp means the 160hp tractor now stays on the drag and the 200hp on the plough still has time to do most of the bedtilling. He's still as fast as the two 5f running together at 16" furrs, because theres less turning and less congestion on the headlands. In fairness its easier in spud fields because we don't plough the corners

We are same as you Spud semi mounted wagon Plough definetly the way to go faster turning on ends with no bigger endrig than a mounted and so much easier on the tractor and also much much safer on the road as it’s just a trailer not to mention the Plough itself will last longer as even a six furrow mounted must exert huge stresses through the headstock and top link etc just trying to pull itself apart. Our mounted Plough hardly turns any ground now just handy when we need two going at times. Only downside would be the actual price of a wagon Plough