Well if you thought it couldn’t get any worse it’s just about to, READ THIS

[kfpben]

@Frank-the-Wool Tell them how vital livestock manure is to grow arable crops; how it reduces the need for artificial fertilisers and raises the organic matter of the soil.

Livestock utilise the things that we can't; grass, rapemeal, brewers grains, citrus pulp, wonky veg. Not all arable cropping can be used by humans- for a healthy farm a proper rotation must be employed which in some instances requires the growing of crops that do not have a ready human market.

As for health- meat consumption has gone up over the last century, both in the UK and more recently in the developing world. Nutrition has improved and life expectancy has increased. Meat is more nutritionally dense than other foods hence the resources required to produce 1kg of lettuce is completely incomparable to the resources needed to produce a kilo of beef.

Finally- freedom of choice. There are plenty of carbon using activities in this world which we do not need to do. Boiling a kettle for a hot drink, using washing machines or dishwashers, driving, having children, travelling. The list is pretty much endless. At what point do we draw the line and say 'back off'?

I would hope that given the furore over the past few days/weeks the NFU would have a good briefing pack for you or an expert to ring beforehand!!??

 

[primmiemoo]

They'll mention slaughter of food animals, so worth emphasising regulations, and mentioning that activists' actions of disruption cause more stress and harm to food animals on their final journeys than passing through the abattoir.

We'll be rooting for you, @Frank-the-Wool

 

[delilah]

They'll mention slaughter of food animals, so worth emphasising regulations, and mentioning that activists' actions of disruption cause more stress and harm to food animals on their final journeys than passing through the abattoir.

and if they do try and play the 'death of animals' card, just point out that far, far more animals are killed to support a vegan diet than an omnivore one.
And if they say "how can that be", don't answer it for them straight away, just ask them to think about it for a moment. It is always fun to let people work out their own idiocy for themselves.

 

[kfpben]

and if they do try and play the 'death of animals' card, just point out that far, far more animals are killed to support a vegan diet than an omnivore one.
And if they say "how can that be", don't answer it for them straight away, just ask them to think about it for a moment. It is always fun to let people work out their own idiocy for themselves.

Excellent point. Far more creatures die in our arable fields than in our grass ones. Of course it is a legal requirement to kill pests in grain stores.

 

[primmiemoo]

and if they do try and play the 'death of animals' card, just point out that far, far more animals are killed to support a vegan diet than an omnivore one.
And if they say "how can that be", don't answer it for them straight away, just ask them to think about it for a moment. It is always fun to let people work out their own idiocy for themselves.

They'll start on about sentient and ambulant creatures, then, so it's worth pointing out that most if not all living things know where they are, and are oriented to the Sun, the Moon, or to the Earth's poles

 

[Cowgirl]

My attitude is that all animals, and people have to die - no-one leaves this earth alive. It's how they live and the manner of their death that is most important. No large prey animal dies without pain in nature - nature is cruel. I do my utmost to ensure that my animals have a good life and a swift death - if only we could do the same for ourselves. My animals were bred to feed people and I can eat them without remorse, knowing that they fulfilled their destiny. It's how I have coped as a vet with having to destroy many animals in my time, knowing that I am relieving suffering.

 

[Frank-the-Wool]

Many thanks for all the replies and information. Especially delilah, cowgirl and kfben.
It is always useful to have a different mindset on these issues.
Luckily I know that the Radio presenter will give me a fair crack at this and it is not under time pressure like TV.

I wonder how many Vegans eat Kenyan green beans that are flown in every day!

 

[melted welly]

Right I need some help as I am up against the Vegans on Radio Kent tomorrow morning. They are doing a program about Goldsmiths College banning beef.
Now I don't have any problem defending our system of sheep and beef being mostly from permanent pasture and forage based systems. The few pastures left on Romney Marsh have remained unploughed and sequestering carbon for hundreds of years.

What I struggle with is this argument that says eating plants is better for the environment and people. Surely most plant crops that are eaten come from land that is ploughed and cultivated and therefore cannot store carbon compared with old well managed permanent pasture. Or have I missed something, these plants will have needed fertilizer of some sort to help them grow.

I also struggle with the Vegan argument that Soya and Oat milk is less harmful to the environment that Dairy cows eating grass or silage.
Do not humans who eat large quantities of plants emit far more methane that those who eat a balanced diet of animal protein and vegetables/salads.

Any help in laymans terms appreciated as the audience will not be very scientifically minded at 7.45 in the morning.

We grow winter strawed carrots in north east Scotland.

6 cultivation passes prior to drilling, 4 fert applications, spray every 2 to 3 weeks, harvest often in terrible conditions damaging our soil. 4 or 5 cultivation passes post harvest to get straw incorporated.

Ask them how that is better for environment than Uk beef?

 

[ollie989898]

The trump card is that livestock grazing on grass can exist where no oat or soya plant can. It is known that humans hunted herbivores for thousands of years. Today we have a symbiotic relationship with ruminants instead: their future success as a species is mirrored by ours. Extensive beef or lamb is very low impact, very low food miles and very low carbon. And the supply is or can be nearly constant.

 

[caveman]

BBC iPlayer Radio set to Radio Kent on the local radio tab.

 

[delilah]

Just listened.
Frank 5, the vegan lady 1.

 

[kfpben]

Just listened.
Frank 5, the vegan lady 1.

‘Frank the Tank, Frank the Tank’!!

 

[caveman]

Well done Frank.
A few great messages put across, in a calm and coherent manner, that would of given many listeners "thought for food" in the face of the same old same old from the fingers in her ears lass.

 

[caveman]

Well done Frank.
A few great messages put across, in a calm and coherent manner, that would of given many listeners "thought for food" in the face of the same old same old from the fingers in her ears lass.

Haha.
Have I just stumbled across a new catch phrase?
I can see the posters now.

THOUGHT FOR FOOD
One kilo of protien from Kenyan beans = X carbon nett.
One kilo of Romney Marsh lamb protein = X carbon nett.

 

[delilah]

Frank played it just right. This was a Kentish audience so he kept talking about Kent, Romney grassland that hasn't been ploughed for centuries locking carbon up.
This is how anyone engaging with the vegan debate should play it, just keep talking up the benefits of local, talk about the countryside your audience knows, how eating its output cuts down on food miles.
Some years ago someone, may have been the Countryside Agency as it was then, pushed the phrase 'eat the view'. That wants resurrecting as a slogan.
I happen to think that localisation is the answer to all of the worlds problems. Many will disagree. No matter. In the climate change debate it is most definitely UK ag's trump card.

 

[Ball acre]

Well done @Frank-the-Wool . Top job

 

[Hampton]

That's just it, it's an effective monopoly, there is no other choice - which is, very probably, why they are so crap.

I have friends in politics and I know just how much work goes into running an organisation, let alone setting it up - which I've been on the periphery of with Vote Leave and the Brexit Party. You need to be nigh-on obsessive about whatever the cause / party is, because it means the end of family and social life, not some things - I'll be honest enough to admit - that I'm prepared to sacrifice.

But none of that, in any way, detracts from how ineffective the NFU is with the join-up slogan you've inferred: 'Join us, you have no other choice'

Start one yourself then

 

[renewablejohn]

Start one yourself then

Would be far easier to be an associate of the Norwegian equivalent of the NFU but unlike the NFU actually listen to their members and actually get things done because they have a seat at the government table.

 

[Top Tip.]

Many thanks for all the replies and information. Especially delilah, cowgirl and kfben.
It is always useful to have a different mindset on these issues.
Luckily I know that the Radio presenter will give me a fair crack at this and it is not under time pressure like TV.

I wonder how many Vegans eat Kenyan green beans that are flown in every day!

I did a radio show last week up against a girl from the vegan society,she really didn’t like being reminded that to survive on a vegan diet you have to take supplements and that it is nutritionally dangerous to bring children up on a vegan diet ,be confident and put your message over with a self belief and you will be fine, they will throw the killing animals into the mix but to me a quick pain free death in an abattoir is far better than a long lingering death from disease or starvation in the wild. Good luck.

 

[renewablejohn]

Would be far easier to be an associate of the Norwegian equivalent of the NFU but unlike the NFU actually listen to their members and actually get things done because they have a seat at the government table.

This is how the UK NFU should operate.

https://www.bondelaget.no/getfile.php/132489-1372414015/MMA/Designelementer%20Mobil/Mat%20og%20landbrukspolitikk/Making%20Norway%20Grow.pdf