What’s the difference between “Regenarative Farming” and traditional “Mixed Farming”?

[Ffermer Bach]

When you regenerate something you fix/mend/improve.

If its not broken in the first place then you can not be regenerative.

It's a buzz word to make those that have just seen the light feel good.

They probably owned a square plough at one stage as well!

are you saying, land in the UK hasn't lost soil organic matter? I disagree.

 

[fudge]

over the years or hundreds of years soil has been lost and organic matter lost, that does not imply to me that people were using regenerative farming principles in the past. I remember Mike Hann in college saying the worst thing to happen to soil was when the man doing the cultivating moved in front of the cultivator instead of behind it, so he couldn't see what effect he was having on the soil.

I suppose you could say the worst thing that has happened to soil is that man has used it to feed billions of his brethren at minimum cost.

 

[SilliamWhale]

However the regen ag concept isn't all bad by any stretch.

It has got farmers talking about and comfortable with trying to maintain/improve their environment, soils, wildlife etc in a way that would have been very difficult for a lot of farmers to admit was of interest.

 

[Ffermer Bach]

I suppose you could say the worst thing that has happened to soil is that man has used it to feed billions of his brethren at minimum cost.

that is now taking the discussion to a far more philosophical level, I have just ordered this, looks intersting

Against the Grain

An account of all the new and surprising evidence now available that contradicts the standard narrative for the beginnings of the earliest civilizations.

blackwells.co.uk

 

[Ffermer Bach]

However the regen ag concept isn't all bad by any stretch.

It has got farmers talking about and comfortable with trying to maintain/improve their environment, soils, wildlife etc in a way that would have been very difficult for a lot of farmers to admit was of interest.

if you read Gabe Brown's book, he uses a lot less fertliser, which I would have thought would interest everyone.

I bought a Blonde bull years ago from Oxfordshire, and chatting to the seller, I mentioned I used to work for Velcourt and their plough and plant (TW30 on the plough, TW10 power harrow, TW20 drill) doing 60 or so acres a day. I remember him saying, diesel is so expensive now, those days when we could do things like that are long gone, and diesel is even more expensive now, so again I would have thought less inversion farming would have been of interest (I am not an arable farmer so know nothing about Blackgrass by the way).

 

[Sid]

are you saying, land in the UK hasn't lost soil organic matter? I disagree.

OK, is rewilding regenerative?

That according to your measure is therefore the Holy Grail.

 

[Pilatus]

This publication may be of interest to those interested in what modern farming was/is doing to the soil.

 

[colhonk]

Over the years I have found that a great many Ex Perts are not.

 

[Sid]

Over the years I have found that a great many Ex Perts are not.

Easier to spot a con then an expert?

 

[Humble Village Farmer]

Surely regenerative is self explanatory. It's regenerating what has been degraded by agriculture over the centuries.

 

[Pilatus]

if you read Gabe Brown's book, he uses a lot less fertliser, which I would have thought would interest everyone.

I bought a Blonde bull years ago from Oxfordshire, and chatting to the seller, I mentioned I used to work for Velcourt and their plough and plant (TW30 on the plough, TW10 power harrow, TW20 drill) doing 60 or so acres a day. I remember him saying, diesel is so expensive now, those days when we could do things like that are long gone, and diesel is even more expensive now, so again I would have thought less inversion farming would have been of interest (I am not an arable farmer so know nothing about Blackgrass by the way).

Interesting comment.
The land around our house is contract farmed by Velcourt. The estate owner/ custodian told me he had a job covincing the Vecourt manager last autumn , that he wanted his wheat and osr D/D rather than Top Downed, rolled , drilled then rolled.
In the end the estate owner got his way and the crops D/D with a Horsch drill look superb.

 

[Pilatus]

Over the years I have found that a great many Ex Perts are not.

Easier to spot a con then an expert?

Do you know the definition of an expert?
X:is an unknown quantity.
Spurt: is a drip under pressure.
An “expert” is therefore an unknown drip under pressure

 

[Derrick Hughes]

how do those that dont plough burry the muck? im spreading it thick 15t/acre often its tricky enough getting it all ploughed in

Why do you have to bury it ,
Let it rot as compost and spread it on top

 

[Pilatus]

Why do you have to bury it ,
Let it rot as compost and spread it on top

Do some Direct Drills cope with FYM “
Spread Thickly” better than others, as the your suggestion sounds great but do you have personal experience of doing what you are suggesting.?

 

[Humble Village Farmer]

Earthworms are surface feeders and pull material into their burrows. Other biology feeds on and breaks up any surface material including dung beetles which can take it into the soil to a depth of 1.8m.

Depends on the drill and how thick you spread.

 

[steveR]

over the years or hundreds of years soil has been lost and organic matter lost, that does not imply to me that people were using regenerative farming principles in the past. I remember Mike Hann in college saying the worst thing to happen to soil was when the man doing the cultivating moved in front of the cultivator instead of behind it, so he couldn't see what effect he was having on the soil.

Nice point that.

How often do you see the tractor operator get off his arse and climb out of the cab... Back down and crack on!

It made me smile 2 years ago when the contracting lads came to get 30ac worked down for beet here. A skill in itself. The Boss man, of a similiar age and experience to me with prepping beet seedbeds, came to check up...

I suspect the lad on the tractor thought that it was drop the tool in the soil and tear down the field at 10mph... He was put right as the tool was properly set up for the soil type. Good to see really.

 

[steveR]

Do some Direct Drills cope with FYM “
Spread Thickly” better than others, as the your suggestion sounds great but do you have personal experience of doing what you are suggesting.?

My cheap and lightweight Aitchison will cope with quite a bit of drying FYM on top. I am sure a pukka DD will do a fine job, although I suspect a tine drill moving the matter aside slightly will be better than a disc.

 

[Lazy Sod]

If you leave the muck on the top and direct drill, is not too strong for the young plants coming through?

 

[Ffermer Bach]

My cheap and lightweight Aitchison will cope with quite a bit of drying FYM on top. I am sure a pukka DD will do a fine job, although I suspect a tine drill moving the matter aside slightly will be better than a disc.

I remember reading that FYM did more good spread thinly over a lot of acres than spread thickly over a few (mind you that depends on how may acres you have suitable for spreading on).

 

[Ffermer Bach]

Interesting comment.
The land around our house is contract farmed by Velcourt. The estate owner/ custodian told me he had a job covincing the Vecourt manager last autumn , that he wanted his wheat and osr D/D rather than Top Downed, rolled , drilled then rolled.
In the end the estate owner got his way and the crops D/D with a Horsch drill look superb.

Remember I am talking 35 years ago, when a TW30 was a new tractor!