What’s your reason for wanting brexit to happen?

[Muck Spreader]

The D DAY comemorations have been a timely reminder of how easy the brexit decision is , we sent 160,000 men to a possible death to save Democracy and Freedom .. not to save their little club .

The EU didn't exist then, it was founded to stop it happening again.

 

[bobk]

The EU didn't exist then, it was founded to stop it happening again.

Maybe we shouldn't have gone then if this is result .

 

[Highland Mule]

The D DAY comemorations have been a timely reminder of how easy the brexit decision is , we sent 160,000 men to a possible death to save Democracy and Freedom .. not to save their little club .

Please don’t politicise the deaths of our ancestors like that.

 

[MiJ]

Not being in a union hasn't exactly helped us avoid being drawn into European wars much in the past. So at least if you are at the table you have some influence.

The wars that will undoubtedly ensue won’t be round any table.

 

[bobk]

Please don’t politicise the deaths of our ancestors like that.

Nothing political about it , its 'a fact , would they send that many men today ? would they fudge , too many liberal objectors in this country and they're killing it

 

[MiJ]

Do people really think that the issues that broke up countries in recent history, who are now individual members of the EU club, won’t ever happen again?

 

[caveman]

Social media is the greatest thing that we have that will stop any wars between us in the future.
Not some cocked up union involving politicians.

 

[czechmate]

Social media is the greatest thing that we have that will stop any wars between us in the future.
Not some cocked up union involving politicians.

Are you mad? It’s more likely to start a war!

 

[Highland Mule]

Nothing political about it , its 'a fact , would they send that many men today ? would they fudge , too many liberal objectors in this country and they're killing it

Brexit isn’t political? Wtf are you smoking? I’m sorry, but you’re politicising a previous conflict, and that’s not on.

 

[arcobob]

I'll have to get back to you on that, I haven't checked the specifics of that recently, and wouldn't want to misquote the legal position. Do you concede that the whole threat of being forced to join an EU army is a lie put about by the leave campaigners? To help, any collaboration would (under law) require an act of parliament and a referendum.

It didn’t require a referendum at the time of the Maastricht treaty or the Lisbon Treaty. Where did you get the idea from. Nowhere in law is a referendum called for in order to transfer powers and therein lies the problem. We simply cannot trust our politicians to look after our interests.

 

[caveman]

Are you mad? It’s more likely to start a war!

On here maybe......

 

[czechmate]

On here maybe......

I’ve seen worse

 

[Highland Mule]

It didn’t require a referendum at the time of the Maastricht treaty or the Lisbon Treaty. Where did you get the idea from. Nowhere in law is a referendum called for in order to transfer powers and therein lies the problem. We simply cannot trust our politicians to look after our interests.

Try Section 6(2) of the European Union Act

 

[Devil's advocate]

Nothing political about it , its 'a fact , would they send that many men today ? would they fudge , too many liberal objectors in this country and they're killing it

Yet we are so rich now & were so poor when we joined the common market as it was then.

I don't want any of my family maimed in a war. Does that make me a snow flake? I like to think I'm quite tough.

 

[Derrick Hughes]

Too many bosses end of . Need the chop most of them

 

[arcobob]

Try Section 6(2) of the European Union Act

My mistake and I accept that you are in theory correct. The fact remains that this is an act of 2011 and is an attempt to shut the door after the horse has bolted. In addition, as you have stated many times, any referendum would be purely advisory. Therefore any attempt at further integration would lead us to exactly the situation in which we now find ourselves. The EU act of 2011 is, in my opinion, a toothless fudge to suggest that we have real powers to safeguard our sovereignty by public vote unless it is subsequently ratified by parliament and acted upon. In other words our present position.

 

[Deutzdx3]

My reason is it is no longer the trade agreement we signed up for. A massive over reach on the European commissions part!

 

[Highland Mule]

My mistake and I accept that you are in theory correct. The fact remains that this is an act of 2011 and is an attempt to shut the door after the horse has bolted. In addition, as you have stated many times, any referendum would be purely advisory. Therefore any attempt at further integration would lead us to exactly the situation in which we now find ourselves. The EU act of 2011 is, in my opinion, a toothless fudge to suggest that we have real powers to safeguard our sovereignty by public vote unless it is subsequently ratified by parliament and acted upon. In other words our present position.

But to go back to @uztrac ’s concerns, within the EU, uk involvement in an integrated military would require an act of Parliament and a referendum, but outside of the EU would require significantly less than this. This, if this is his reason for wanting to leave, he has been a victim of project fear he is sadly misguided.

 

[arcobob]

But to go back to @uztrac ’s concerns, within the EU, uk involvement in an integrated military would require an act of Parliament and a referendum, but outside of the EU would require significantly less than this. This, if this is his reason for wanting to leave, he has been a victim of project fear he is sadly misguided.

But to go back to @uztrac ’s concerns, within the EU, uk involvement in an integrated military would require an act of Parliament and a referendum, but outside of the EU would require significantly less than this. This, if this is his reason for wanting to leave, he has been a victim of project fear he is sadly misguided.

I have briefly studied articles regarding reform treaties such as Lisbon concerning the loss of a veto and the new voting system within the EU. On the face of it there is a certain amount of logic because it allows progressive reform within the EU without constant blocking. This is a double edged sword and makes it more difficult for us to retain our opt outs.
Taking a hypothetical example regarding monetary union.. If it was decided by the commission and ratified by the EU parliament that a date should be set for complete fiscal and monetary union thus removing our opt out we would not abide by the decision unless we had a referendum in favour of this action which was subsequently ratified by the UK parliament. The final point is important because, as you pointed out, referenda are only advisory.
My point is this. Are referenda a waste of time and have we lost control of our opt outs?
I would concede that some of these fears have been overhyped but they cannot be ignored. To say that various progressions with EU policy which undermine our sovereignty cannot happen without the say so of the UK government gives me no confidence.

 

[Muck Spreader]

My reason is it is no longer the trade agreement we signed up for. A massive over reach on the European commissions part!

But the UK was a main driving force in changing it to what the EU is today. The we get special opt-outs on anything we don't fancy and then finally say it's not what we really wanted after all. Like a ruddy kid in a toyshop.