What age are lambs safe from foxes?

[newbie]

We've had a few lambs taken by foxes recently. I've taken to bringing everything in at night until we can get them sorted.
Just wondering what age people think they will be safe? I'm concerned that they'll take a twin whilst everything's settled down for the night?

 

[Dkb]

Depends how hardy they are but anything older than a week dosent really stand much threat IME

I used orl den on the back of their neck this spring. lambs never housed had a bit of a problem last year no problem this year. Can't say if it's the orl den but it came highly recommend from two men that say it stopped foxes mid way through a lambing overnight when they started using it.

 

[penntor]

Try putting a couple of spots of stokholm tar on the lambs, one spot on the neck and one just above the tail, works for me.

 

[Dry Rot]

An official study into sheep predation by foxes on the west of Scotland concluded that a fox could take a live healthy lamb up to 10kgs in weight.

See paragraph 2 of the report below:
http://www.jstor.org/stable/2405051?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents
http://www.jstor.org/stable/2405051?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents

 

[JohnGalway]

Put Stockholm tar on the necks of your lambs. Buy the tar in a pot/bucket, don't use the spray tin. I find a 250ml or 500ml water bottle with pop up sports cap makes a handy applicator. You can fill it using a 60ml syringe.

Don't mean to disagree with other posters, I'd avoid that fox oil, different things work for different farms but lads here used it and foxes still killed lambs. YMMV.

Same lads had late March/April Texel/Blackie cross lambs killed in JULY. An entire family of five or six foxes were hunting together. I shot a few of them and that stopped the problem.

But do use the Stockholm tar, it does work.

 

[Al R]

We stopped using the pots of tar 10-12 years ago as spray tar came out. So much cleaner, handier and works just as well. We tried the first year using potted tar from the shed and spray tar in the outdoors. Both worked as well as each other. Is it definetly a fox? Could it be a badger? Otter?

 

[newbie]

An official study into sheep predation by foxes on the west of Scotland concluded that a fox could take a live healthy lamb up to 10kgs in weight.

See paragraph 2 of the report below:
http://www.jstor.org/stable/2405051?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents

Wow, 10kgs! That's a good weight isn't it. Looks like I'll be buying some tar

Thanks

 

[newbie]

Thanks John and AI R for your replies. I'll be getting some tar then!
I'm not certain it's a fox but highly likely as a couple of big fat ones have been spotted in broad daylight very nearby and I've never heard of any badgers or otters near us.
Luckily we border a large sheep farm so the powers that be are after them

Thanks again

 

[Dry Rot]

Wow, 10kgs! That's a good weight isn't it. Looks like I'll be buying some tar

Thanks

I could tell you stories about foxes attacking fully grown NCC sheep up here (north of Scotland) and these were not isolated incidents and were well documented.

 

[Rod Dumbreck]

We stopped using the pots of tar 10-12 years ago as spray tar came out. So much cleaner, handier and works just as well. We tried the first year using potted tar from the shed and spray tar in the outdoors. Both worked as well as each other. Is it definetly a fox? Could it be a badger? Otter?

We have been loosing lambs hand over fist this year, and thought we had put a stop to it having shot ten foxes, but last night we lost a pair of freshly turned out twins and brought in a lamb with a bite on her neck, to join the two other in the shed, one is able to feed, the other still needing help as he so twisted. It has crossed my mind that this is badger damage, would they go for the neck? Any other ideas? We are full on with the Stockholm tar.

 

[TexelBen]

I could tell you stories about foxes attacking fully grown NCC sheep up here (north of Scotland) and these were not isolated incidents and were well documented.

Tell us!

 

[digger64]

An official study into sheep predation by foxes on the west of Scotland concluded that a fox could take a live healthy lamb up to 10kgs in weight.

See paragraph 2 of the report below:
http://www.jstor.org/stable/2405051?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents

Once watched a fox harrass newly calved cow - wanted the cleanse , wouldnt have believed this if I didnt see it

 

[Guiggs]

We have been loosing lambs hand over fist this year, and thought we had put a stop to it having shot ten foxes, but last night we lost a pair of freshly turned out twins and brought in a lamb with a bite on her neck, to join the two other in the shed, one is able to feed, the other still needing help as he so twisted. It has crossed my mind that this is badger damage, would they go for the neck? Any other ideas? We are full on with the Stockholm tar.

Yeah a badger will go for the neck or head, sometimes it will take the lamb away, sometimes just eat it's guts or just it's head and sometimes just kill it and leave it.
The ones they left for me would have visible puncture marks and broken bones around the bite as a result of its powerful jaws...nasty f***ing things!

 

[Al R]

We have been loosing lambs hand over fist this year, and thought we had put a stop to it having shot ten foxes, but last night we lost a pair of freshly turned out twins and brought in a lamb with a bite on her neck, to join the two other in the shed, one is able to feed, the other still needing help as he so twisted. It has crossed my mind that this is badger damage, would they go for the neck? Any other ideas? We are full on with the Stockholm tar.

A badger will predominantly take the brain, so they take the head off. We had a rogue 1 about 12-14 years ago and he took out 25 lambs in 1 night - only the heads were missing.
Dad was doing a farm talk for children(10yo) one day and walking into a field all 14 of them saw a badger run across to a pair of twins, swipe both their heads, onto the next pair, took them 2 and took a single which wasn't even standing yet.

I don't mind foxes myself as a fox will only kill to feed his family so we only lose 1-2 lambs to a fox, but a badger can destroy a field full of lambs quickly. Otters are nasty too but their more like 1 a year "may" be an otter but i know otters will destroy ponds of fish so I doubt they'd take just 1 lamb?

 

[JohnGalway]

I don't mind foxes myself as a fox will only kill to feed his family

Don't bet the farm on it. Lady farmer about 6 miles away sent word one year, had lost 18 or so lambs in that week alone. Shot 1 non rearing vixen that Saturday night. Just 1 lamb went missing the next week, so went again the next Saturday night, shot another non rearing vixen. No more lambs went after that.

 

[Al R]

Don't bet the farm on it. Lady farmer about 6 miles away sent word one year, had lost 18 or so lambs in that week alone. Shot 1 non rearing vixen that Saturday night. Just 1 lamb went missing the next week, so went again the next Saturday night, shot another non rearing vixen. No more lambs went after that.

Fair enough! You will always get a rogue one but I think with the pure amount of afterbirth around outside when we're lambing it must be enough to feed them or we havnt got many foxes? 1 mange fox that went into a shed is the only fox that has been shot here for 3 years :0 I havnt had time and we can only shoot from November-march due to walkers. On some outlying land we have we've had 3 lambs taken of various ages but it's next to a 100 acre valley/wood and no other livestock touch the valley.

 

[Dry Rot]

Tell us!

I used to lamp foxes around here before it was general. In winter, the temperature will often go below -10c (-25C reported a few miles north). I'd regularly see foxes hunting in small groups. I'd also get reports at lambing of large pregnant ewes attacked, presumably while they were incapacitated in some way (on their backs or in labour). The usual entry points were the backside, udder, and behind the front leg, i.e. bare areas. There was at least one reliable eye witness and reports from vets attending ewes that had been attacked but survived.

The most memorable incident to me was a large North Country feeder tup that I found dead one morning but still warm. It had been entered behind the front leg as usual and there were clear fox tracks in the snow, also a pool of blood. I telephone a friend who had been a pathologist and she confirmed, "A corpse does not bleed". So the sheep had been alive when attacked. No post mortem so I don't know if the sheep was already sick but these old NCC park type tups are big!

Training and animal behaviour is a hobby of mine. The Arabs have no problem training their falcons to attack gazelle so with a gradual introduction, cold, opportunity, and hunger, I can see no reason why foxes wouldn't attack animals far bigger than themselves.

 

[Rod Dumbreck]

A badger will predominantly take the brain, so they take the head off. We had a rogue 1 about 12-14 years ago and he took out 25 lambs in 1 night - only the heads were missing.
Dad was doing a farm talk for children(10yo) one day and walking into a field all 14 of them saw a badger run across to a pair of twins, swipe both their heads, onto the next pair, took them 2 and took a single which wasn't even standing yet.

I don't mind foxes myself as a fox will only kill to feed his family so we only lose 1-2 lambs to a fox, but a badger can destroy a field full of lambs quickly. Otters are nasty too but their more like 1 a year "may" be an otter but i know otters will destroy ponds of fish so I doubt they'd take just 1 lamb?

Thanks for the replies, we have only had one with the head missing, it was early on so didnt pay that much attention to it as it could have been dead already.

Lost another last night and found a fifth bitten in the neck but alive, the gashes in its neck are 21 mm apart, so I think I am back to thinking fox.

 

[cheviot53]

Loose 30 or so lambs plus some injured , every year to foxes have tried orl den and pine /Stockholm tar non of these are 100% . This year I'm lambing the hill twins inside as the foxes tend to pick on these especially gimmers . The only way to stop foxes is to shoot them , 10 last lambing , we are part of a fox control club