What age to drive Quadtrac on road?

Discussion in 'Agricultural Matters' started by Banana Bar, Nov 13, 2017.

  1. fudge off
    They still driven with a steering wheel
    They still go around corners

    It's not like they are a steel track crawler with steering clutches / brakes . . .
    Irish NZ and Philip Watkins like this.
  2. Exfarmer

    Exfarmer Member

    Bury St Edmunds
    In the legislation regarding Cat. H licence it specifies any vehicle steered by tracks.
    This is to specifically exclude half tracks, which steer by their wheels either in front or back.
    There is nothing to exclude articulated crawlers.
    Mike Braithwaite certainly was of the opinion that Quadtracs did not need a Cat. H. But this was only his advice to Police officers regarding the legislation. It has not been tested in law, other officers have given different opinions.
    However as I pointed out it is perfectly legal to drive one if you have a Cat . C licence but you should display L plates, a very minor offence. There is no requirement to carry a licensed driver with you.
    However driving one under the age of 21 is certainly illegal, there is no exemption for the fact you have a Cat. C licence, or possibly a Cat. B.
    Driving without a licence means in theory you have no insurance and in the event of an accident, the employer as well as the driver, is going to be in the poo with a capital P if someone was killed
    Brisel likes this.
  3. Brisel

    Brisel Member

    The legal definition is due to history. The law simply hasn't been updated to allow for steering wheels. If it is steered by its tracks then it falls under the legislation for a tracklayer.

    I did a category H test for our twin track crawlers. The Challenger dealers are/were clued up on this & used to host cat H tests for their customers. I went to a couple of Mike Braithwaite's courses so I was under the impression that articulated crawlers were ok on the normal category F (tractor) category licence. I can't remember the age limits as I was well over 21 before driving them. I'm not going to pick a fight with Simon on this - he is far more up to speed with current legislation than me.

    I think we ought to have a proper definition of what we need for crawlers for weight, licence categories & age limits - there are a lot of crawlers around & there could be lots of inadvertently unlicenced and therefore uninsured drivers on the roads.

    @Simon Chiles - are there any ag vehicle experts in the industry now since Mike passed away? Any test cases in law?
  4. jondear

    jondear Member

    Probably think it's something to do with the railway's!
  5. Whenever we have a thread about licences for different ag vehicles there are always one or two comments suggesting it doesn’t matter if the driver gets stopped because the police probably don’t know the laws anyway.

    Whilst that may be true I think the thing to remember is this: The Police may not know every law every day, but they will damn sure find the law if your driver hurts anybody whilst driving.

    Could you live with yourselves if somebody was killed whilst driving illegally under your instructions?

    With these big machines get the licence and wait until the driver is 21 to be on the safe side. They’re not built for roadwork anyway and it surely can’t be much hassle to find another driver to move it along the road occasionally, can it?
    76masseyman, Davey and Exfarmer like this.
  6. Brisel

    Brisel Member

    If your farm is in a ring fence then you could move around ok but if you're a contractor with units miles apart then roadwork is a major hassle if you have to have someone on standby to move the crawlers around regularly.
  7. Yes, I suppose you’re right there, but in that instance it’s even more important to be on the right side of the law.
  8. Simon Chiles

    Simon Chiles DD Moderator

    All laws are subject to interpretation, it’s how the system works. The laws are basically for guidance until someone comes along and decides that your case is different from the definition or court cases before. In that instance you’ll be taken to court and depending on the outcome you may become what is known as case law and define how the law is interpreted from then on. One of your police officers who thinks that the Quadtrac requires a Cat H might just try to take you to court in this instance. There is a big difference between doing everything you think possible to comply with the law and blatant disregard for it, in the first instance I doubt it would invalidate your insurance, in the second I suspect it would.
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2017
    Brisel and Exfarmer like this.
  9. Simon Chiles

    Simon Chiles DD Moderator

    There are a few self proclaimed experts who seem to pop up now and again, I’ve been to talks by a few and didn’t necessarily agree with everything they said and that’s what makes it difficult to source the correct info. To be fair I think Mike Braithwaite’s book was the bible and if it didn’t contain the info you needed it often gave reference to the legislation for you to be able to follow it up. Mike Sumner still produces Mike Braithwaite’s book under kind permission from his wife and would know most of it of by heart. However it’s not a complete guide to all the C and U regs concerning Ag vehicles, for that I know someone in the AEA who used to work for the DfT who would know them inside out. Don’t forget that there are also the regulations about rebated fuel and operators licenses on top of all that so finding one person who’s completely au fait with it all is difficult.
    Crex and Brisel like this.
  10. llamedos

    llamedos New Member

  11. Exfarmer

    Exfarmer Member

    Bury St Edmunds
    Interesting guide and some very salient points, particularly regarding towing.
    I appreciate that there is doubt on the category licence required, I would always advise to get an H category but if people feel they are happy without, so be it.
    What is certain, is that driving these vehicles on the road before you are 21, is illegal. Further they cannot tow any implement or other, unless you have the correct full licence at any age.
  12. casemx 270

    casemx 270 Member

    East midlands
    Have you driven one then ?
  13. Yes
    Irish NZ likes this.
  14. Davey

    Davey Member

    I would say the best place to get an answer would be your insurance company.

    Regardless of what plod thinks if you're insurance is happy I'd say you're 90% of the way to a defence.

    Plus you know for sure you're covered in case something goes wrong
    Andrew K, Irish NZ and 76masseyman like this.
  15. deere66

    deere66 Member

    Nobody gives a flying fudge about speed or weight limits so why bother about the correct license, until, one day there's a crash and someone gets hurt.
  16. 76masseyman

    76masseyman Member

    From what I've seen, £62.00 to pass the category H test.

    No brainier realy for peace of mind. A cheap insurance should the unthinkable happen one day.
    Brisel likes this.
  17. Still Farming

    Still Farming Member

    Glamorgan Wales
    Taxation class is a Tractor ant it ?
  18. multi power

    multi power Member

    But that's just common sense, we are not allowed to use common sense here, we just have to tick some boxes
    casemx 270 likes this.
  19. Banana Bar

    Banana Bar Member

    Bury St Edmunds
    Agree totally but that wasn't my question.
  20. 76masseyman

    76masseyman Member

    Sorry. That quote wasn't directly aimed at oneself. But I did answer the original question in post no' 6.
    I believe only members of the armed forces may drive a track layer at a younger age.

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