What are the benefits of no-till farming?

[martian]

I have good weigh-bridge data going back 17 years showing our average yield steadily improving. However it would be wrong to attribute that to no tillage alone, varieties, fungicides and my own knowledge has also improved a lot over the period

On your lighter ground it must help having more SOM in the ground, so your crops have access to more moisture through the dry periods, as well as more available nutrients from a healthier soil.

 

[martian]

I do think the improvement in soil structure will pay in dry years but how often do we get a genuine dry season where crops get grief from it? Down here it is the other way around.

I still think the stripper header is the answer myself, I don't see any point in cutting straw, thrashing it and using horsepower to chop the stuff if a drill can pass through it ok and it shelters the next crop up. I wonder how short a wheat crop could be whilst maintaining the optimum level of yield? Dwarf varieties of OSR have been around for some time, how about shorter wheat and barley which needs less PGR and produces less residue?

The root mass from a cereal crop alone must leave some organic matter behind, along with the stubble.

Has anyone got yield meter results that demonstrate an actual yield improvement from no-till over time? Maybe you guys in the drier parts of the UK or on lighter dirt?

Well, we had a hot and dry early summer this year, so I think a mulch covered soil must have helped (as well as having plenty of SOM). I agree with you on the idea of the stripper header, but , as Clive says, the reality is not straightforward. We're playing around in a couple of places with tall heritage varieties which, in theory, swamp weeds out better and would benefit from being able to be harvested by a stripper header so the weeds don't contaminate the harvested crop. You have to remember too, that a lot of the organic matter in the soil comes from root exudates that your crop (and weeds) pump out to support the mycorrhizal fungi and other soil creatures that go on to form humus.

 

[ajd132]

if only header losses were lower from a stripper I would agree, been there done that, sold the header !

I know it doesn’t work in your system/rotation but the sharing of stripper header now we are growing lots of spring crops could be really good (if we get organised better logistically) . I’ve had really good succes with wheat after oats and rape after spring barley.
im not convinced on wheat or drilling into stripped straw in March on wet clay. Like most things compromise is important if you can find someone to share things with.

 

[ollie989898]

I know it doesn’t work in your system/rotation but the sharing of stripper header now we are growing lots of spring crops could be really good (if we get organised better logistically) . I’ve had really good succes with wheat after oats and rape after spring barley.
im not convinced on wheat or drilling into stripped straw in March on wet clay. Like most things compromise is important if you can find someone to share things with.

In what scenarios will your drill reliably work in stripped straw?

 

[ajd132]

In what scenarios will your drill reliably work in stripped straw?

Anything winter drilled after spring crops. Osr, barley, wheat. You need a disc drill which are sh!t at drilling beans on clay so that is out of the question unfortunately. Spring crops would work well after a stripper on Clive’s light soils but not convinced yet on the clay.

 

[Hampton]

Got some beans that were drilled straight into stubble with a sumo dts in the spring. Going to plaster the field with cattle muck then may get it direct drilled with either sumo or a 750A.
How much muck can those drills cope with?

 

[Duosig]

Would the increased losses from a stripper header be compensated by the lower diesel consumption? Here in Norway we have to stop combining early evening because the straw is getting damp. Would a stripper header let me continue a few hours until the actual grain moisture is increasing? if so, the increased combining capasity would be huge

 

[glasshouse]

Would the increased losses from a stripper header be compensated by the lower diesel consumption? Here in Norway we have to stop combining early evening because the straw is getting damp. Would a stripper header let me continue a few hours until the actual grain moisture is increasing? if so, the increased combining capasity would be huge

That is true
In the dark it can be hard to seee where you have been and wish to go with a stripper

 

[Surgery]

That is true
In the dark it can be hard to seee where you have been and wish to go with a stripper

Always thought you need lights on when dealing with strippers , you get to see what you pay for

 

[Banana Bar]

Glad all going well with you, Dockers.
We were discussing today whether to buy in straw rather than have the hassle of baling our own, which does so much good for the soil. Bit late for this year...but neighbours all seem to love selling straw
Spring barley did a spectacularly poor 2.5 tonnes/hectare with a spend of £190/ha...barely worth the trouble. Certainly not enough straw to bother getting baler hitched on. Can't remember now why we thought we'd bother planting the bloody stuff.

I suggested this at a Monitor Farm meeting, the silence was deafening!

 

[yellow belly]

the biggest benefit with notill
less stress from the weather what ever it chucks at us
do not need a second gang for cultivations so the 3 of use could harvest 2500 acres plus 1 week for a 4th person when we drilled cover crops
now finished winter drilling notill 2 weeks earlier in the autumn 2 weeks later in the spring

in total harvested 2500 acres crops drilled 650 acres cover crops 35o acres winter linseed 1100 acres of wheat
in the spring planted 2200 acres spring crops from 28 march to 28 april
1 gd drill 1 combine 1 sprayer avadex spreader bulk seed 3 people mostly heavy soil

the other benefits
lower costs less weeds more interesting cropping 3 cereal crops 3 break crops no oilseed rape
with spring cropping much lower working capital

 

[Bossfarmer]

the biggest benefit with notill
less stress from the weather what ever it chucks at us
do not need a second gang for cultivations so the 3 of use could harvest 2500 acres plus 1 week for a 4th person when we drilled cover crops
now finished winter drilling notill 2 weeks earlier in the autumn 2 weeks later in the spring

in total harvested 2500 acres crops drilled 650 acres cover crops 35o acres winter linseed 1100 acres of wheat
in the spring planted 2200 acres spring crops from 28 march to 28 april
1 gd drill 1 combine 1 sprayer avadex spreader bulk seed 3 people mostly heavy soil

the other benefits
lower costs less weeds more interesting cropping 3 cereal crops 3 break crops no oilseed rape
with spring cropping much lower working capital

ok very good that post would convince all of us to switch to no till but most i know that have made the move have switched back to the plough so tell us the downfalls of the system and how to get round them, listening to many of the no till farmers on here is like listening to vegans its a one sided argument we need to have a more balanced discussion for us conventional farmers to believe whats said and take it seriously!

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Reading other peoples horror stories about harvest elsewhere on the forum, I'm minded to keep my head down as things don't seem too bad here. It's not been a record breaking harvest (and we've still got a fair bit of spring wheat to cut), but things haven't gone too badly and it's been a cheap year spray-wise. One of the first things that strikes me is how well the soil has stood up to the wet winter and hot, dry early summer. We probably haven't had as much rain as a lot of you, but the ground travels beautifully, you can't see where the combine or corn-carts have been and the cover crops are going into a lovely tilth.

We managed to drill almost everything we intended in the autumn, as the undisturbed soil took the small amount of traffic required to slot the seed in, despite the wet. Three or four fields were resown in the spring as they weren't going to make a crop, but otherwise we were happy. Likewise the spring sowing went ok, but the following drought knocked their potential, but yields on the whole haven't been disastrous. The vital point from a resilient farm point of view is that costs are minimal, so exposure to risk is much reduced.

How are others finding this year? Were your soils able to provide your crops with water and nourishment through the hot spell? Or are you all joining the frenzy of plough buying?

For us, the answer is very simple - resilience

We have pastures and covercrops that don't get too wet to stand the cattle, or too dry to feed the cattle.

The tillers and killers have "zero days" and need more production from their grazeable area, to pay for their inputs and compensate for their area that's doing nothing. Massive energy loss.

We're the "profitable turtle" that gets to benefit from all the hares. We showed an operating profit of about £1100/ha and only sold 11 cattle for the financial year just gone.

 

[ajd132]

ok very good that post would convince all of us to switch to no till but most i know that have made the move have switched back to the plough so tell us the downfalls of the system and how to get round them, listening to many of the no till farmers on here is like listening to vegans its a one sided argument we need to have a more balanced discussion for us conventional farmers to believe whats said and take it seriously!

The only reason for failure is the management. I’ve seen loads of people try it and the only thing they changed is not performing the act of cultivating. You spend less hours working but more hours learning and researching.

 

[britt]

The only reason for failure is the management. I’ve seen loads of people try it and the only thing they changed is not performing the act of cultivating. You spend less hours working but more hours learning and researching.

And the hours that you spend working need to be better timed.

 

[ajd132]

And the hours that you spend working need to be better timed.

Not sure what that means?

 

[ajd132]

And the hours that you spend working need to be better timed.

Sorry I get you know, yes I agree

 

[Bossfarmer]

For us, the answer is very simple - resilience

We have pastures and covercrops that don't get too wet to stand the cattle, or too dry to feed the cattle.

The tillers and killers have "zero days" and need more production from their grazeable area, to pay for their inputs and compensate for their area that's doing nothing. Massive energy loss.

We're the "profitable turtle" that gets to benefit from all the hares. We showed an operating profit of about £1100/ha and only sold 11 cattle for the financial year just gone.

We showed an operating profit of about £1100/ha and only sold 11 cattle for the financial year just gone

how did you achieve this?

 

[Bossfarmer]

The only reason for failure is the management. I’ve seen loads of people try it and the only thing they changed is not performing the act of cultivating. You spend less hours working but more hours learning and researching.

what else is there to know? the drill should put it straight in, weed control?

 

[Two Tone]

I do think the improvement in soil structure will pay in dry years but how often do we get a genuine dry season where crops get grief from it? Down here it is the other way around.

I still think the stripper header is the answer myself, I don't see any point in cutting straw, thrashing it and using horsepower to chop the stuff if a drill can pass through it ok and it shelters the next crop up. I wonder how short a wheat crop could be whilst maintaining the optimum level of yield? Dwarf varieties of OSR have been around for some time, how about shorter wheat and barley which needs less PGR and produces less residue?

The root mass from a cereal crop alone must leave some organic matter behind, along with the stubble.

Has anyone got yield meter results that demonstrate an actual yield improvement from no-till over time? Maybe you guys in the drier parts of the UK or on lighter dirt?

I deliberately choose taller varieties to help out-compete Blackgrass. It certainly helps.