itsalwaysme
Member
- Location
- Cheshire
It did or does apply to care fees
What can the Government take to pay for residential care
- Thread starter balerman
- Start date
I don't know so will take your word for it. If there is a large amount of money involved, best to get proper advice with some sort of insurance attached. Simpkins Edwards helped us out and I would recommend them for anyone in Devon / South West.
- Location
- Northern Ireland
Question for you guys.
We (me, wife, mum, dad) are farming partners as far as the revenue are concerned. Dad added me to the farm business bank account, the department of agriculture subsidy system of the day, and to HMRC for income tax purposes when I was somewhere about college age. That was 20-25 years ago. I got married and added wife in reasonable due course. There was a gradual evolution in the first 5-10 years where I grew into leadership, and dad grew out of it. There is no other legal partnership agreement.
Who actually legally owns for example the livestock? It's easy to pin down certain things. Like tractors are owned presumably by the keeper on the V5. Or maybe not. Maybe it was whoever a machine was invoiced to i.e. could have been a random partner name or farm account name. (But technically I don't see our partnership as having a legal status other than to apportion income tax).
We (me, wife, mum, dad) are farming partners as far as the revenue are concerned. Dad added me to the farm business bank account, the department of agriculture subsidy system of the day, and to HMRC for income tax purposes when I was somewhere about college age. That was 20-25 years ago. I got married and added wife in reasonable due course. There was a gradual evolution in the first 5-10 years where I grew into leadership, and dad grew out of it. There is no other legal partnership agreement.
Who actually legally owns for example the livestock? It's easy to pin down certain things. Like tractors are owned presumably by the keeper on the V5. Or maybe not. Maybe it was whoever a machine was invoiced to i.e. could have been a random partner name or farm account name. (But technically I don't see our partnership as having a legal status other than to apportion income tax).
renewablejohn
Member
- Location
- lancs
Do you have a formal partnership agreement. If not you may be in for a shock. All I can suggest is get it formalised pronto with your legal boffins and accountant.
You don't have to have a legal agreement. Mum and I did just like you, went to the accountant the bank and notified government for the single farm payment.
As to who owns what if it ain't fixed down it's shared equally between the partners "unless you have written agreement otherwise" also the name on a vehicle logbook means nothing.
The actual property maybe listed in your annual accounts as an asset. Be warned you won't have a share of the property unless it has legally been transferred to the partner ship
If you have siblings not involved with the partnership then when the time comes to settle your parents estate "hope its a long way off" then you will get a share of their partnership share and keep your own but you will be on an equal terms as far as the property.
Think you need to talk with your parents and get a few things written down legally
As to who owns what if it ain't fixed down it's shared equally between the partners "unless you have written agreement otherwise" also the name on a vehicle logbook means nothing.
The actual property maybe listed in your annual accounts as an asset. Be warned you won't have a share of the property unless it has legally been transferred to the partner ship
If you have siblings not involved with the partnership then when the time comes to settle your parents estate "hope its a long way off" then you will get a share of their partnership share and keep your own but you will be on an equal terms as far as the property.
Think you need to talk with your parents and get a few things written down legally
- Location
- Northern Ireland
No siblings. Parents currently still in for tax purposes, otherwise can exit at any time. Accountant recommended no urgency in retiring them, but he may not have a full handle on implications of every scenario, like care, being mainly a tax accountant.
Yes it would be relatively easy I suppose to get solicitor to create an agreement that functional business assets are held by partners A and B, and not C and D.
Estate planning is in order. But the care aspect of things seems to be a trickier business, and not at all time limited like IHT.
Yes it would be relatively easy I suppose to get solicitor to create an agreement that functional business assets are held by partners A and B, and not C and D.
Estate planning is in order. But the care aspect of things seems to be a trickier business, and not at all time limited like IHT.
You need to get someone with the right legal knowledge
the age of your parents can make a difference to your thinking , but having their tax advantage know might cost you later with iht
the age of your parents can make a difference to your thinking , but having their tax advantage know might cost you later with iht
- Location
- South Wales UK
Keep at his home and get home help and nurses in.
Sod the Government rip off.
Sod the Government rip off.
- Location
- South Wales UK
When you fill in and sign your tax returns what do you sign?
Sole trader or Partnership forms???
- Location
- Northern Ireland
Mmm. Farm income is divided in an established manner, and fed into individual tax computations which obviously include other incomes, like pensions etc. So technically we sign individual tax calculations, but prepared on a joint basis.
You should be doing a partnership tax return and each partner does a private return
Assuming your accountant is up to speed then your OK as a partnership you should also be registered with the VAT office which helps
None of this helps with your original question about the government and care costs
I'm not 100% sure but I think all they have to leave you is about 27 k off your parents estate and they take the rest to pay for or towards care
Assuming your accountant is up to speed then your OK as a partnership you should also be registered with the VAT office which helps
None of this helps with your original question about the government and care costs
I'm not 100% sure but I think all they have to leave you is about 27 k off your parents estate and they take the rest to pay for or towards care
- Location
- South Wales UK
But don't sign Partnership forms?
Or are you a company?
- Location
- Wiltshire
I lost my dad to dementia last January, he was in a home for a while. We tried all we could to keep him at home but his care needs were far more than we as a family and the brilliant nursing staff we had coming in could cope with.
The most important thing to do is organise power of attorney, everyone should have this in place. Don’t for a second think it’s not necessary for yourself, we were saved massive issues by having it. Include a health care POAwithout it it is challenging with doctors care homes etc.
Care money is huge we were paying £1500 a week for care and there are plenty of homes significantly more expensive. Home nursing is also expensive and they don’t come with all the facilities a home can provide. With hindsight I think we should have moved dad to a home long before we did. Basically you will be playing if there’s above £23k available. A house with a spouse in it is not counted. I don’t believe partnership assets are either. A care home will want proof of ability to pay for 2 years ( the average stay)
Dad was still a partner in the business, my advice would be to have a proper conversation with an accountant who knows what he’s talking about and also your lawyer. Fortunately before we fully understood what was happening to dad I organised a meeting with me, my parents, my accountant and lawyer at the same time. This was far from a cheap afternoon. BUT we put plans in place regarding the business, property ownership and inheritance.
By doing this everything should now be relatively organised.
You can’t plan for death soon enough, dementia is no way to go but at least we had the finance planned.
Bg
The most important thing to do is organise power of attorney, everyone should have this in place. Don’t for a second think it’s not necessary for yourself, we were saved massive issues by having it. Include a health care POAwithout it it is challenging with doctors care homes etc.
Care money is huge we were paying £1500 a week for care and there are plenty of homes significantly more expensive. Home nursing is also expensive and they don’t come with all the facilities a home can provide. With hindsight I think we should have moved dad to a home long before we did. Basically you will be playing if there’s above £23k available. A house with a spouse in it is not counted. I don’t believe partnership assets are either. A care home will want proof of ability to pay for 2 years ( the average stay)
Dad was still a partner in the business, my advice would be to have a proper conversation with an accountant who knows what he’s talking about and also your lawyer. Fortunately before we fully understood what was happening to dad I organised a meeting with me, my parents, my accountant and lawyer at the same time. This was far from a cheap afternoon. BUT we put plans in place regarding the business, property ownership and inheritance.
By doing this everything should now be relatively organised.
You can’t plan for death soon enough, dementia is no way to go but at least we had the finance planned.
Bg
ollie989898
Member
Average length of stay in a care home is 18 months. Typically this will cost up to and around 180-200K, depending on what sort of care is needed and in what kind of establishment.
You must sort power of attorney for financials AND health ahead of time. You don't want to be one of the hordes of people trying to get their loved one into a proper care home only to have them languishing in a community hospital because you are unable to sort their affairs.
You must sort power of attorney for financials AND health ahead of time. You don't want to be one of the hordes of people trying to get their loved one into a proper care home only to have them languishing in a community hospital because you are unable to sort their affairs.
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- Location
- Northern Ireland
Yes, no problem there. EPA done for them about ten years ago, and recently for myself and my wife. As I said, inheritance planning is in order. But my understanding is that seven year IHT rule does not apply to assessments done by local authorities, who as I read it can consider basically anything done at any time as 'deprivation of assets.' I'm wondering if anyone has experienced this...
ollie989898
Member
Home care costs a fortune, IF you can get it and are happy with the service. Will cost around £2K a week for serious care. There is care and 'care'. Actual nursing care is very expensive.
Netherfield
Member
- Location
- West Yorkshire
As @Boysground states power of attorney can save a lot of problems later.
You do have to set it up whilst the person in question is aware and able to sign and agree to it, too late if dementia is set in.
We had it done some 15 years before dad died, but not when mum died, it caused a few problems with the bank, they closed the acount immediately and then issued a new account and number, some cheques which had already been written and posted off got bounced, and the bank started paying some direct debits which had previously been cancelled.
You do have to set it up whilst the person in question is aware and able to sign and agree to it, too late if dementia is set in.
We had it done some 15 years before dad died, but not when mum died, it caused a few problems with the bank, they closed the acount immediately and then issued a new account and number, some cheques which had already been written and posted off got bounced, and the bank started paying some direct debits which had previously been cancelled.
Nearly
Member
- Location
- North of York
It's about quality of life not quantity of life.
We've power of attorney over both retired Mums.
Our kids have power of attorney over us. We had to wait for son to turn 18 before he could sign them.
We've said we want to stay at home for as long as practical then in a home for as short as possible.
When we had a pair of doctors in the cottage I told them to ring me before they ever started to resuscitate Mum as her house is worth £2k a month in rent.
We've power of attorney over both retired Mums.
Our kids have power of attorney over us. We had to wait for son to turn 18 before he could sign them.
We've said we want to stay at home for as long as practical then in a home for as short as possible.
When we had a pair of doctors in the cottage I told them to ring me before they ever started to resuscitate Mum as her house is worth £2k a month in rent.
- Location
- Northern Ireland
Yes we sign to say accounts were prepared in accordance with the rules, and we take responsibility etc. Plus individual returns. Not that we've signed anything this last couple of returns due to covid.
ollie989898
Member
It's about quality of life not quantity of life.
We've power of attorney over both retired Mums.
Our kids have power of attorney over us. We had to wait for son to turn 18 before he could sign them.
We've said we want to stay at home for as long as practical then in a home for as short as possible.
When we had a pair of doctors in the cottage I told them to ring me before they ever started to resuscitate Mum as her house is worth £2k a month in rent.
Being serious for a moment and it is coincidental you bring it up but if you have a loved one who is diagnosed with a long term health condition and looking at going into care etc then please have a sit down as a family and discuss with your relative what their wishes are regarding resuscitation AND what care escalation plans they want put in place. Having a doctor having to ask you all later on may cause a lot of distress for your family if they aren't in a good place already and it might save you having to make some pretty nasty decisions at some point in the future.
- Tags
- establishment health