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Discussion in 'Brexit & Politics' started by Old McDonald, Jan 16, 2019.
The people elected to run our country asked us what we wanted to do. We (I) voted to leave.
I then expected our elected leaders to do as asked and organise it.
As for the ill mannered childish debacle that followed, I’m now thinking non of the main political parties can be trusted with running the country. It’s about time someone told them all to sort themselves out and grow up! In fact I suspect that behind closed doors EU leaders are saying exactly that.....
Was it though, really ? Struggling health service, closing schools, no refuse collection, potholed roads....
London was tickety boo, not so the rest of the UK.
Much the same as many here. Expected A50 to be invoked swiftly, and to come out of it with a clean break once the period was over. We were told time and time again in the run up to the vote that leaving would include leaving the customs union, single market etc, and that is what I hopes would happen. However, since the morning of the result I have been half expecting it to be thwarted, looking at what happened after previous votes on differing aspects of membership across Europe.
I like Europe, I just have general contempt for the political entity that is the EU. Happy to trade, co-operate on some things, but not to be intrinsically, politically or fiscally bound to it.
Then again, we were also told it was our decision, not MPs, not parliament and there would be no second vote
Leave, simple as
I hoped we would leave and parliament to get behind the incumbent Government to maximise the UK's negotiating position.
I expected politicians to demonstrate just how much contempt they hold voters in and how feeble but conniving they themselves are. Even though I expected them to demonstrate their incompetence and lack of respect for voters I am staggered by just how bad they have been.
I dont think any of them should be allowed anywhere near parliament.If they had any decency none of them would stand again.
I was expecting to just leave like you would walk out the pub door after a night out no more fees deals buying pints that you Carnt drink
Open the door and walk out easy if you make it
I expected David Cameron to honour his pledge, continue as PM and do as he said, to implement what ever winning decision the country had voted for.
I expected him and all our Politicians to “Man up”, realise what we voted for, get on board and get on with it.
I expected that A50 be implemented quickly after Leave won.
I expected that doing so would concentrate both the UK and EU’s politicians minds on sorting out import/export border control issues and air traffic control issues.
I expected the EU to play it rough, resulting in no actual agreements were made until a day or two before the 2 years were up.
I expected our negotiators to play as hard as Barnier would and both he and our PM not to agree to pay any divorce bill until any agreement’s were agreed.
What I didn’t expect was the disgraceful behaviour of remoaner politicians, particularly the Tories, to try every trick in the book to delay and prevent us leaving. Nor did I expect so much of our media and to join in and help them.
I expected a hard Brexit and that is still what I want and expect.
I voted remain as a vote for stability. We’re the 5th biggest economy in the world, everything was going pretty well, why change it? I thought leaving would be bad for the economy and create division; which it has. I think the ftse has already lost more in value than we have ever paid into the EU The whole thing has been a complete fiasco, for no good reason. Everyone in this country is always moaning that there isn’t enough money to pay for the NHS, pensions, roads, schools, national debt and blah blah blah. Now we’re doing something that’s going to make us poorer! I can’t work it out!
Let us face facts (not a 'leave' supporter trait, I know, but you do what you can...) and realise that this is, effectively, a post mortem on Brexit.
The actuality is that it was stillborn - the propositions so beloved of 'leave' voters, and so eloquently expressed here, were never realistic or remotely practical, as amply proved by events since June 2016.
However, it is difficult for people to reassess their philosophical and ethical stands - it is more comfortable by far to ascribe it to Brexit being strangled by unhelpful politicians in January 2019.
People hardly ever blame themselves for their own mistakes, because it is easier to blame others.
The constituencies where Labour where concerned about voting margins, are there marginals and particularly the coastal marginals where Brexit is a far stronger feature. The inner cities they could not care as they could put a pig in place and it will still be elected
Of course the same applies in many Conservative constituencies such as mine, which voted leave but we have a very strong remain MP
What I expected would happen when I voted leave.
1- That we would extricate ourselves from the ever tightening clutches of the EU. Thus protecting British citizens from the consequences of living under a power-hungry federal government with scant regard for democracy and the rule of law.
2- That, typically, the EU would make this difficult, concerning itself only with protecting it’s power rather than working towards a mutually beneficial divorce agreement.
3- That the EU would strengthen its powers and make it impossible for anyone else to leave, rather than considering why we left and possible reform.
4- That our government would competently and robustly negotiate with the EU for a fair and cooperative agreement. That, naturally, we would be prepared to walk away if necessary.
5- That we would move away from the protectionist and restrictive customs union and return to our default position of global trade.
6- That there would be initial problems and even potentially a recession.
7- That in the medium term we would prosper with our new found freedom of trade without the EU ‘drag’ of funding it, protectionist trade, and relocation of UK industry.
All those Mps who say they want a 2cd vote say they want leave with no deal on the voting card and if thats the wish of the people a 2cd time then so be it ,
so please explain 'never realistic or remotely practical', if that was the case then surely hard remainer MPs would state that not offer it up as a 2cd helpings
When I voted remain I hoped for stability. Over recent decades I have done very nicely thank you. When leave won I expected a total shambles followed by hasty and disadvantageous trade deals with the USA et al as leave politicians struggled to replace the jobs they had needlessly destroyed.
You are an excellent instance of those who can persuade themselves of unreality - moaning about the loss of all those small farms, that your family bought up and now rack-rent to those less fortunate.
You cause a problem, then blame it on someone else.
Then retire to Suffolk, or somewhere else that you find more congenial than here, on the profits, leaving behind a damaging legacy that cannot now be undone.
Brexit is merely this selfish trait, writ large - that the UK could retain the benefits of trading with a Single Market, whilst not bearing the costs and obligations it brought.
Our friends and neighbours were never going to accept it.
The greatest danger, now, is that the Dutch, Germans and French decide to make us go thru' with our delusions in order to prove them.
You remind me of a farmer who for years said in the Pub that his farm was nothing but a sh!t hole and a bog ,only to say what a fantastic farm it is when trying to sell it
The fact you chose to post in the leave thread rather than the remain one,speaks volumes. A good example of "However, it is difficult for people to reassess their philosophical and ethical stands -".
You have,as almost always, avoided answering any questions.
Exactly how much of the ability to run this country are you willing to pass to the EU?
Voting for remain was not about staying as we were.
You need to look pass your own issues with farm succession and look at the bigger picture.
Those who support leaving are being selfless, prepared for short term pain for long term stability, it is the 'I'm alright,thank you very much' remoaners who are selfishly undermining the largest democratic vote we've ever had.
Stop trying to insult us on this thread and try to think of something positive to write about remaining.
I see Tiawan are demanding rules to be adhered to if UK is entering WTO .
All deals will have trade rules.
Not sure how that is relevant to my post....
All deals are negotiable.
With the digital age and globalisation, I would imagine most existing deals really need revisiting.
Thank you very much for replying to @Walterp .. I am afraid I would not be so kind. Sorry for any confusion in previous threads.