What did you expect when you voted Leave?

[Jackov Altraids]

"Those who support leaving are being selfless, prepared for short term pain for long term stability,..."

This, in a nutshell, is why 'leave' cannot happen - it is not the prospectus that was advanced in 2016, when there was no mention of any pain.

It is precisely this unreality that made Brexit a myth from the outset.

And why, nearly 3 years later, 'leave' supporters are asking liberals for solutions to the problems they themselves created.

I don't want anyone to get the wrong idea 'bout me and FT - we are mirror images in many ways: I live in a relatively Anglicised part of Wales and belong further North, whilst he lives in the heartland yet hankers after living in England. He inherited farms, while I have had to buy mine (one, famously, twice over). He rents out farms for others to try to make work, while i make my own operation function through my own efforts.

I recognise that the CAP has nothing to do with how we have ended up here, whilst he looks elsewhere for why he is where he is.

The greatest irony of Brexit is that those who profess a belief in self-reliance are, in fact, those most prone to blaming others for their problems.

Being prepared for pain is different to expecting it.
The remain campaign never addressed any of the issues of being a member of the EU but made clear the risks of leaving although greatly exaggerating the consequences.
Leave supporters are not asking liberals for a solution. Those who voted leave would quickly get a majority for a deal. It is those who don't want to leave preventing due process.

I would like to apologise to Old McDonald for my extra post's and will now retire from this thread in respect of his request "Please only answer the question asked, and in the appropriate thread."

 

[Ley253]

do you use old tractors and power harrows ?

As I dont actually farm, the answer must be no. Having said that, I never replace anything while it still has any life left.My car is a 2001, my lorry 1986, tractor that is used, 1972.All do what I require from them.

 

[Walterp]

 

[Old McDonald]

I am posting this response in both the threads I began. Thank you to those who answered the question. It is also noted that some people simply could not bear to let go an opportunity to post something not connected to the thread merely to put forward a point of view.

Briefly, a quick count makes it that 21 people (22 including me) who voted Leave answered the question. All appeared to expect Article 50 of the Lisbon treaty to be implemented without variation. That means the UK gives notice, there is a two year period in which to make a withdrawal agreement, failing which the UK leaves without any withdrawal agreement and WTO rules take effect.

Six people gave their expectations for voting Remain and appear to genuinely believe that remaining would provide their expectations. I appreciate that and have no arguments about it.

Two interesting points if I read the responses correctly. The remainers tend to mention retaining the status quo, with a hint that their financial situation has been at least “OK” in the EU. We all know that is not going to be the future. “Ever closer union” has been the mantra since the Treaty of Rome and continues to be so. The future is that ever closer union – led by the Franco-German partnership, will become much closer.

The other point is that absolutely none of the leavers mentioned immigration or expecting to be personally in a better financial position, with most anticipating that a withdrawal agreement would not be reached.

Make what you will of that. I have no intentions of becoming embroiled in further discussion, I was curious to know what people expected. Not what they hoped for, but expected, so thank you again to those who were good enough to answer my question.

 

[stewart]

The strength of the economy/wealth is not necessarily a measure regarding people's quality of life etc

The old cliché. "It is better to be poor and happy than rich and unhappy" I agree with the sentiment although poverty/happiness or wealth and unhappiness are not mutually exclusive, it is also possible to be wealthy and happy.
Whilst strength of economy is not necessarily a measure of quality of life a strong economy certainly helps to increase the quality.
Mae West put it very eloquently when she said "I have been rich and I have been poor, Rich is better."

 

[Yacker]

Money isn't important until there isn't any...

 

[Yacker]

Tolerance level.... many if not most on here will never have had to go to a food bank, hand back the keys to their house, rely on a charity to get shoes for their kids.

With all due respect (and i really mean that) just what is your tolerance level in the pursuit of a no deal brexit? Do you sit there and think "weĺl if my stock get culled due to traffic jams i will just wait for my compensation cheque" or is it "well if my stock gets culled due to traffic jams i will just go bust"

Its all about tolerance.... and often its those who have never had to tolerate much that make bold statements otherwise.

Note the above is a sweeping generalisation and other sweeping generalisations are available.

 

[arcobob]

Tolerance level.... many if not most on here will never have had to go to a food bank, hand back the keys to their house, rely on a charity to get shoes for their kids.

With all due respect (and i really mean that) just what is your tolerance level in the pursuit of a no deal brexit? Do you sit there and think "weĺl if my stock get culled due to traffic jams i will just wait for my compensation cheque" or is it "well if my stock gets culled due to traffic jams i will just go bust"

Its all about tolerance.... and often its those who have never had to tolerate much that make bold statements otherwise.

Note the above is a sweeping generalisation and other sweeping generalisations are available.

We are all different as you say. Some are better at avoiding risk, some make sensible provision for the future based on their own decisions, some are impulsive and make rash moves and others do none of these or anywhere in between. If you believe that Brexit will kill your business and that a benefit cheque will rescue you and you choose to do nothing about it, that is your decision. If you hedge your bets and prepare carefully you may find that things turn out differently but if we all become poorer because the economy suffers the benefit cheques will shrink or dry up.

 

[M-J-G]

In the referendum, I always knew leave would be utter chaos.

Making changes with no plan in place was never going to be anything else.
Those who convinced so many that things would be better outside Europe better be correct, if not they should get the bullet, and not nescessarily in a metaphorical sense.

 

[M-J-G]

I expecting the losing side to get behind whoever gained the most votes and not split the country
I think Labour are in big trouble now as it was a vast number of their voters that wanted a hard Brexit . Corbyn has shot himself in both feet today

That's what referendums do, they split countries. E.g. Canada x3

 

[Exfarmer]

Most of the prblems have come, because Article 50 was signed , with not a thought of what comes next.
A properly drawn up plan for leave should have been in place, then we could have said this is what we are going to do. The ball would have been in the EU court to respond how they felt. Instead we have become the laughing stock of the world as we hold out our begging bowl , “ please can we have some more”
Far cry from Liam Fox and “the easiest deal ever”

 

[arcobob]

In the referendum, I always knew leave would be utter chaos.

Making changes with no plan in place was never going to be anything else.
Those who convinced so many that things would be better outside Europe better be correct, if not they should get the bullet, and not nescessarily in a metaphorical sense.

And the reverse may also apply?

 

[M-J-G]

And the reverse may also apply?

I know, they may be wrong.