What do you think about this? Disc versus tines?

[SorenIlsoe]

http://seedhawkseeder.com/blog/comparing-a-disc-opener-to-knife-opener-for-big-iron-show

 

[Dockers]

Kept the Seedhawk, sold the 750a ! That's what I think.

 

[ajd132]

Interesting, my only worry is that with my Dutches on a horsch is that I can't drill into really thick covers, but I may be able to offset this with by inter row drilling? How much trash can a tine really handle?

 

[Simon C]

For Spring drilling, I definitely get better crops with a tine than a disc for all sports of reasons. Not quite the same in a dry Autumn though.

 

[ajd132]

I'm thinking on our heavy clay I could do with both of we're really going to go whole hog into zero till

 

[marco]

tyne for covers and disks to sow into them?

 

[RTK Farmer]

I'm no expert but think that as soil structure and condition improves then the difference between tine and disc becomes less.

 

[Rainmaker]

I'm no expert but think that as soil structure and condition improves then the difference between tine and disc becomes less.

Agree,I've heard of places in aussie were they have DD'ed for so long the top few inches are like potting mix now and disc openers stall as they can't get enough friction to turn. Long term DD may even favour tines.

 

[mikep]

Depends on soil. No matter what you could not use a tine on our land for any more than four days a year two in the spring and two in autumn. It would either smear or shatter its either disc or cultivate and drill.

 

[dontknowanything]

http://seedhawkseeder.com/blog/comparing-a-disc-opener-to-knife-opener-for-big-iron-show

All fair points, some places and situations tines are better than discs. But hardly a surprise to see Seedhawk giving that side of the story.

 

[Clive]

Kept the Seedhawk, sold the 750a ! That's what I think.

I did the opposite but with a Dale

 

[SilliamWhale]

tyne for covers and disks to sow into them?

That isn't far off the mark. I sometimes feel could do with a tine about 10% of the time.

 

[Against_the_grain]

In our situation in the UK in heavy soils you can't go wrong with a tine. They will work in many more situations than a disc. In the UK with our weather a disc is just to needy (conditions) and un-reliable. We need to be able to drill into cold wet heavy soils and a tine gives us the ability to do this. Where a tine falls down in trash clearance....

 

[Clive]

tines would be useful if I wanted to drill 2nd cereals, other than that I can see no situation where they would offer an advantage, trash clearing wheels (or tines even) on a disc drill would offer the same advantage when required

When I started zero-tilling I bought a used 750a and a used Dale that ran alongside each other in yr1 - it was the Dale that got sold

both worked well but the tine (on my soil) was much more disturbance and compared with a disc was rubbish at dealing with trash

so my compromise is I don't grow many 2nd cereals with my disc drill - is that really a compromise as they dont really pay well on my soils anyway compared o a spring break.

moving to zero-till is not all about machinery, it's about matching machinery to a system and using agronomic solutions to problems vs simply relying on mechanical solutions - understanding that is a key mind shift for many but those that get it are the successful ones from what I have seen so far

 

[warksfarmer]

http://seedhawkseeder.com/blog/comparing-a-disc-opener-to-knife-opener-for-big-iron-show

Problem is its not a 'knife', its a tine which causes soil disturbance. People looking at No Till in the UK now are doing so mainly for weed issues. Secondary is possibly some financial savings. So because its all about weeds, specifically grass weeds, then minimal disturbance is the key. No tine drill does this like a disc drill.

If somebody actually did make a 'knife' seeder so it was like a knife as we know it, then maybe at that point the knife seeder would be preferably on some UK soils because the trough below the seed might be worthwhile.

 

[Pedders]

Problem is its not a 'knife', its a tine which causes soil disturbance. People looking at No Till in the UK now are doing so mainly for weed issues. Secondary is possibly some financial savings. So because its all about weeds, specifically grass weeds, then minimal disturbance is the key. No tine drill does this like a disc drill.

If somebody actually did make a 'knife' seeder so it was like a knife as we know it, then maybe at that point the knife seeder would be preferably on some UK soils because the trough below the seed might be worthwhile.

Those of us using tines want the disturbance.. we embrace it ! for all the reasons outlined in that article .... I really don't buy this minimal soil disturbance thing as I can't see how in reality it actually allows any reduction in herbicide use and I'd much rather have a more vigorous plant growing away from any weed problems ....

 

[Persa]

tines would be useful if I wanted to drill 2nd cereals, other than that I can see no situation where they would offer an advantage, trash clearing wheels (or tines even) on a disc drill would offer the same advantage when required

When I started zero-tilling I bought a used 750a and a used Dale that ran alongside each other in yr1 - it was the Dale that got sold

both worked well but the tine (on my soil) was much more disturbance and compared with a disc was rubbish at dealing with trash

so my compromise is I don't grow many 2nd cereals with my disc drill - is that really a compromise as they dont really pay well on my soils anyway compared o a spring break.

moving to zero-till is not all about machinery, it's about matching machinery to a system and using agronomic solutions to problems vs simply relying on mechanical solutions - understanding that is a key mind shift for many but those that get it are the successful ones from what I have seen so far

Clive, Didn't you try a rowcleander from @Bprengineering on the 750a? Did it do the job??

 

[warksfarmer]

Those of us using tines want the disturbance.. we embrace it ! for all the reasons outlined in that article .... I really don't buy this minimal soil disturbance thing as I can't see how in reality it actually allows any reduction in herbicide use and I'd much rather have a more vigorous plant growing away from any weed problems ....

Understand what your saying but surely weeds on the surface no disturbance means less weeds which means less herbicide.

As soon as you move that soil then you are chitting weeds so I'm of the thinking that less is more with this when thinking about weeds BUT if thinking about the crop your planting and the soil we have then some soil disturbance around the seed would be beneficial.

 

[dontknowanything]

It's not about using less herbicide, it's about getting better results. If your herbicide has 95% control, do you want 95% of 100 weeds germinated, or of 10? Still the same spend, but one results in an almost weed-free field, the other doesn't.

 

[Louis Mc]

tines seem to always pull up stones whch is a real pain. If you can try to always plant into some kind of live roots the biology it brings with it (legume nodules, worm casts, amf, soil bacteria) might maybe provide similar nutrition to the disturbance caused by a tine. Or just place a small bit of fert to make up the difference?? Not enough experience to give any advice but this is how I see it from the soils point of view...