What does Red Tractor cost you in cash terms?

[Chris F]

nothing

Ding, Ding. And I think we have a winner. This is why Jim Moseley is "spouting" this £50 figure per farm. He is taking into account all the farmers who aren't part of Red Tractor and pay nothing!

Gotta love statistics.

 

[Brisel]

Ding, Ding. And I think we have a winner. This is why Jim Moseley is "spouting" this £50 figure per farm. He is taking into account all the farmers who aren't part of Red Tractor and pay nothing!

Gotta love statistics.

Unless Roscoe isn't farming at all, he's paying in via AHDB levies...

 

[roscoe erf]

Unless Roscoe isn't farming at all, he's paying in via AHDB levies...

no dont send to market farmer to farmer

 

[Two Tone]

"Guilty until proven innocent" - I believe that's the Red Tractor motto.

They probably have it in latin on a gold leaf coated crest above the door of the new HQ.

There is absolutely no doubt that some assessors view it exactly that way!
I had one whose attitude was exactly that.

It was only when I wrote to NSF to complain about his attitude that the following year, he was assessed at the same time that I was assessed and he passed me for the first time in 4 years. He never came here again after that time, but not before he changed my view of all assurance schemes permanently. Helped by the fact that his own boss overrode the reason why we failed the year before.

In my letter, I had pointed out that if you take an HGV driving test, the examiner is trying to pass you, not fail you.
His boss took over for the next 3 years and I have to say that he was fair and good. He realised all the problems within the scheme and has retired now. I’m fairly certain the reason he has retired is because of the failures within the scheme itself, which he could no longer comfortably live with.

I insisted that I wanted a proper rather than a virtual test in 2020. The new to us assessor was also clever enough to realise all the faults within RT system too.

The NFU don’t like us all to know and have deliberately tried to hide the fact that RT cannot insist on any virtual tests. Or that any member’s refusal to allow one, means that RT cannot refuse continued Full assurance or expulsion from it, without good reason.

Basically, the whole thing STINKS!
Right from the very top of all the stakeholder organisations involved in it and including the the head of RT itself.

 

[stroller]

Red Tractor "membership" £215
Noroso £29
Sprayer mot £170 (2/3 cost as legally every 3 years)
Nroso course £45
Total £459
Unpaid time: as little as possible copying and pasting excel, inspection time etc probably 8 hrs

 

[Barleymow]

Red Tractor "membership" £215
Noroso £29
Sprayer mot £170 (2/3 cost as legally every 3 years
Nroso course £45
Total £459
Unpaid time: as little as possible copying and pasting excel, inspection time etc probably 8 hrs

You forgot rubbish disposal £250 a load here when tip open

 

[Brisel]

You forgot rubbish disposal £250 a load here when tip open

Having commercial waste disposed of is a legal requirement. As long as you have a waste transfer note for something to show the inspector there’s no requirement to say that you have to do this every year. I had a note for a load of tar planings which was fine. This isn’t really an extra cost of RT.

 

[Stevethemeat]

No cost as not assured yet top price for pigs in market non assured have hit the top for store cattle non assured lambs still to go market this year but last year left a healthy profit
Grain fed to livestock
Happy being non assured

 

[kiwi pom]

No doubt I'll be shot down for being gullible, but I've been told by several inspectors that they find sprayers with different sized nozzles on the booms. When they drive into the yard and there is rubbish everywhere and nettles growing through the sprayer, they know it won't take long to find something they will fail on. I've seen some very ropey sprayers with NSTS stickers on when contracting - leaks, blocked nozzles, lots of boom movement. I didn't look at the date on the sticker but did wonder how that would ever pass.

Before RT I know of a 1000 acre plus unit that was cereals, dairy and 200 acres of spuds. The sprayer driver one year had no licence, no training and never even saw the sprayer manual. They were "promoted" to the job when another staff member left and had no knowledge of sprays or procedures. The agronomist knew and covered themselves by never speaking to the driver.
Two other staff members eventually got their Pa1 and 2 when someone visited the farm and did the whole thing in a day, without them going near a sprayer as the untrained guy was using it.
Fert bags and spray containers seemed to go missing around the same time as the binmen backed down the drive
This farm was considered one of the better units in the area.

Apparently things have changed a lot since RT.

 

[DRC]

£252 CMi fee
Maybe £400 in levy.
£80 for sprayer mot.
Couple of hours doing the paperwork.

So roughly £4/ac. Although I expect to cut about £200 off that due to reduction in arable area / increase in grass and stewardship.

Is it onerous? No.

Would I jump ship to another provider who standards were analogous to those of imports? Absolutely. I find the lack of competition for these schemes annoying.

That’s a very cheap sprayer MOT . Forget what I paid but think it was nearer £200.

 

[SilliamWhale]

Had the bill today

£75 for the Fee for nroso
£60 labour

I bought some parts as well.

But at the end of the day its £135 to watch a bloke look at my perfectly working sprayer

And furthermore - what do NROSO do with all these £75's?

 

[kiwi pom]

Had the bill today

£75 for the Fee for nroso
£60 labour

I bought some parts as well.

But at the end of the day its £135 to watch a bloke look at my perfectly working sprayer

And furthermore - what do NROSO do with all these £75's?

It's a pain for those that already do it right but what do you do about those that don't?
How much is the MOT on your work vehicle?

 

[Steevo]

It's a pain for those that already do it right but what do you do about those that don't?
How much is the MOT on your work vehicle?

What happens for you guys and your sprayers down under?

 

[kiwi pom]

What happens for you guys and your sprayers down under?

Wouldn't have a clue.
Sorry.

 

[SilliamWhale]

It's a pain for those that already do it right but what do you do about those that don't?
How much is the MOT on your work vehicle?

At least MOT is regulation

 

[manhill]

No doubt I'll be shot down for being gullible, but I've been told by several inspectors that they find sprayers with different sized nozzles on the booms. When they drive into the yard and there is rubbish everywhere and nettles growing through the sprayer, they know it won't take long to find something they will fail on. I've seen some very ropey sprayers with NSTS stickers on when contracting - leaks, blocked nozzles, lots of boom movement. I didn't look at the date on the sticker but did wonder how that would ever pass.

How much harm can be done by having different size spray nozzles. Can you give an example of a worst case scenario?
I'm not well up on spraying hazards.

 

[kiwi pom]

At least MOT is regulation

True but how do you get rid of the cowboys if no ones checking?
I think some people have this backwards, if you are ALL at the same standards and ALL pay the price then you're all still equal.
You direct all your anger at RT, the NFU and foreign imports but you should really be aiming it at those that aren't assured in your own country. They have non of the costs and could potentially have lower standards but they are directly competing with you.
I think you'd be better campaigning for everyone that wants to sell produce (including imports if you like) to have to be assured, then it's a level playing field and the hobby farmers might just pack up which will reduce competition further.

 

[Bury the Trash]

What happens for you guys and your sprayers down under?

Im sure they have it covered .

 

[Renaultman]

nroso is mandatory for ACCS RT

I would not bother with it or need it if not needing to pass red tractor, my operators learn nothing on the course they do or on treasure hunts at cereals !

they passed a test so are deemed qualified..... do we need to retake our driving test or keep having driving lessons all our lives ?

I know I'm in the minority but I have no issue with ongoing training, that's both LGV and farming. The delivery, content and format of both are poor but I would like to think I learn something from all, even if it via just interacting with my peers.
Not to enamoured with the online course, especially with s lower points value though.

 

[Brisel]

How much harm can be done by having different size spray nozzles. Can you give an example of a worst case scenario?
I'm not well up on spraying hazards.

An overdose from oversized nozzles = illegal, residues in the grain, crop scorch, underdosing elsewhere on the boom could help build a resistance problem and will certainly mean sub optimal treatment. Different angled nozzles could mean missed gaps if the boom is too low.

It's just unprofessional really. For £3-5 per nozzle and in my case, hundreds of thousands of pounds worth of chemical going through the sprayer each year it's bloody careless. If I saw that on a farm, I'd also wonder what other expensive lost attention to detail I'd find.

Don't get me wrong - I am no fan of RT, but the not-so Voluntary Initiative has made pesticide application far more professional in the last 20 years. Chemicals still end up in the wrong place but IMO we would have seen more heavy handed regulation without it.