What hours do you expect someone to work?

Douglasmn

Member
Yes I do think that’s acceptable. The alternative is me working 365 days a year instead of 313. Do you work on a stockfarm? I’m glad it’s not mine.
If you are of the mind that it is unacceptable then I don’t think farming, at least livestock farming is for you lad.
As a farmer with stock I really have never seen the need to work like you are suggesting is necessary.
 
Location
East Mids
Reading this thread it makes me really sad as - having been an employee myself - I can see that some farmers still have completely unrealistic expectations of workforce. I work hard to promote careers in our industry in schools and I don't think I want to any more based on what some have said here. I've worked full time on 2 farms and several others either as a casual or work experience as a student. I am technically an employee now but that's different as I work for my husband so hours and pay rates go out of the window.

Farm 1 I started as a harvest student over several years and then became a trainee manager a year after graduating. In the latter post I was salaried, but normal working hours were 8pm until 4.30pm, with a paid morning coffee break and an hour unpaid lunch break. Although I was responsible for cattle and sheep. As a mixed farm, there were several busy periods - a long harvest which included hops and apples, lambing, calving etc. At those times we all worked longer hours- eg hop-picking it's 6am until sometimes 7pm and then I was often corn carting until midnight. But in winter or early summer if we were in the yard after hours the boss would want to know why, there was no need for it. Livestock duties at non-busy times were shared between 2 of us so we could have alternate weekends off. The other farm was dairy and arable, the herdsman worked 11 days in 14 and he was salaried with an expectation of 6am-6.30 pm, with an hour off at breakfast and again at lunch. Non-milkers it was 7.30-4.30 with a half hour breakfast break at 9am and an hour at lunchtime. I was assistant herdswoman, (hourly pay & overtime) for a year (it was always a year's post for someone who had just left uni/college and wanted to further their experience) and was responsible for cows and calves whenever the herdsman was not there - 3 days a fortnight, plus his standard holidays and days out at shows, training etc, plus general calf and cow responsibilities under the herdsman when he was at work, with gfw/arable etc as necessary. Again, other than someone coming in to help with the cows for an hour in the mornings at weekends / bank hols in winter, apart from harvest, silage and drilling, no extended hours were expected. But when asked, everyone was happy to chip in as many hours as necessary.

All I can say is, no wonder some farmers have problems finding staff.
The hours that farmers work are completely irrelevant in this discussion, it is their livelihood, their home and their passion.
My brother is an experienced arable farm manager and has been for many years, obviously salaried, and his boss has to beg him to take time off because he sees the business almost as his own (even though he changed job 2 years ago) , but it is not the employer forcing the hours on him.
 

thesilentone

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Cumbria
Princess Pooper (please change your screen name) don't be dis-heartened. This is a blog, and the majority of the posting is quite good and informative.

Those asking about ' how many ' working hours, and 'how to fill in a time sheet' are clearly not experienced employers, so don't take it to heart.

Use this medium as a means to help share information and move everyone forward, selling farming in schools is a critical part of our future, as we try and re-engage the public with the food they eat.

For many on here (if previous posts are anything to go by) H&S, Employment and Staff Development, Environmental Auditing, etc, etc are a foreign language. However, that does not alter the fact that they are committed hard working family/community people.

In some cases. I know for some, this is the only place they really communicate with others.

So, get stuck in, don't be downbeat, fight the corner, and ignore the idiots :)
 

Rowland

Member
S
That would be the perfect solution, someone prepared to have their ‘weekend’ on a Monday Tuesday. Does such a person exist?
I’m not big enough to employ enough people to spread weekend duties over more than every other weekend and without automatic feeding a la pig unit someone has to turn a key on a tractor every day I’m afraid.

Most shift workers !
Daughter in law works week of earlys week of lates every other weekend off ! sh!t pay sh!t hrs
 
I work every weekend. 12hrs Friday, Saturday and Sunday then upto 12hrs overtime Monday night. Do so as that fits around my other halfs job without having to pay for childcare, and gives me enough time to do my own animals. Plenty of people work weekends happily, especially with a bit of extra money for doing so. If people want 60hrs a week out of an employee, they are better off having 2 and spreading the work between them rather than running one into the ground and paying them an extra wage in overtime.
 

thesilentone

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Cumbria
I work every weekend. 12hrs Friday, Saturday and Sunday then upto 12hrs overtime Monday night. Do so as that fits around my other halfs job without having to pay for childcare, and gives me enough time to do my own animals. Plenty of people work weekends happily, especially with a bit of extra money for doing so. If people want 60hrs a week out of an employee, they are better off having 2 and spreading the work between them rather than running one into the ground and paying them an extra wage in overtime.

What if one needs 37.5 (EU working directive) to make a living ?
 

Highland Mule

Member
Livestock Farmer
Quick reminder for us all of the legal position - may be useful before some boast about what they get up to:

At least one 20 minute break if the shift is longer than six hours.
Not more than 48hrs/week, averaged over any 17 week period (can be voluntarily opted out by employee, but employee decision must be respected)
Minimum of 11 consecutive hours rest in any 24 period (so no finishing at midnight and back in at 8am)
One day off per week, or two consecutive days off per fortnight
Limit of 8hr shifts for normal working night shifts.

There are very few exceptions to the above, and agriculture is not one of them. Note that only the 48hr/week average working hours are open to opt out - it is not possible for an employee to opt out of the other requirements. Working regular 13+ hour days, or more than 12 days straight through is illegal and were an accident to happen (as often does with tired employees), the employer would have a difficult defence against HSE prosecution.

edit <Worth pointing out that rules for under 18s are even more strict.>
 

glasshouse

Member
Location
lothians
You're saying that farmers don't eat in working hours?

They have their breaks at home, not sat in the cab or a manky shed.

And why are people glad of the extra cash for overtime? Because basic pay is crap, that's why.
Sorry you see it that way.
I am sitting in a manky shed having my lunch now.
Doing business emails at the same time.
Not all farmers live onsite
Ag wages arent the best i admit, but a free house is worth £200 per week now.
And no commute too, thats worth £50/wk
 
Sorry you see it that way.
I am sitting in a manky shed having my lunch now.
Doing business emails at the same time.
Not all farmers live onsite
Ag wages arent the best i admit, but a free house is worth £200 per week now.
And no commute too, thats worth £50/wk
so when I packed in in july 2016 your figures say I was getting £894.23 a week,for £250 a week I would want a better house than one with a leaking roof and windows
 
what do we see as the future for employees in ag? personally now brexit has happened and farm support predicted to be cut i see workers needing to be worked harder or let go, farmers will need to put more hours in themselves, unfortunately with prices stagnant, inputs steadily rising and support falling workers wages have gone UP!! when we last had a worker he got £3.60/hr
 

unlacedgecko

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Fife
what do we see as the future for employees in ag? personally now brexit has happened and farm support predicted to be cut i see workers needing to be worked harder or let go, farmers will need to put more hours in themselves, unfortunately with prices stagnant, inputs steadily rising and support falling workers wages have gone UP!! when we last had a worker he got £3.60/hr

Hahahaha hahahaha
 

beefandsleep

Member
Location
Staffordshire
what do we see as the future for employees in ag? personally now brexit has happened and farm support predicted to be cut i see workers needing to be worked harder or let go, farmers will need to put more hours in themselves, unfortunately with prices stagnant, inputs steadily rising and support falling workers wages have gone UP!! when we last had a worker he got £3.60/hr

Don’t be daft. Contrary to the opinion some seem to have I do believe in fair pay for a fair days work.

I’m offering £9 basic £12.50 overtime. I think that’s a good wage, I expect a good weeks work and an honest careful employee in return.
Some people on here think I’m out of order asking for that.
If I can’t get the labour I need then fine, I will get local contractors to bid on a stubble to stubble rate and guys can go work zero hrs contracts driving for them. I can do the stock work myself but I can’t do everything, main worry would be if I got sick or injured as well as the wife possibly divorcing me but I will cross that bridge when I come to it.
 

TheTallGuy

Member
Location
Cambridgeshire
M
Minimum of 11 consecutive hours rest in any 24 period (so no finishing at midnight and back in at 8am)
One day off per week, or two consecutive days off per fortnight
Limit of 8hr shifts for normal working night shifts... it is not possible for an employee to opt out of the other requirements. Working regular 13+ hour days, or more than 12 days straight through is illegal
The wording in the law for these parts is "entitled to", which means that a worker can choose to work that way, but cannot be forced to. Whereas the wording on the 48 hour average week is "shall not", which requires the explicit opt out clause to be invoked.

The employer does have a duty of care to ensure that employees are not too tired to carry out their duties.
 

SFI - What % were you taking out of production?

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Red Tractor drops launch of green farming scheme amid anger from farmers

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As reported in Independent


quote: “Red Tractor has confirmed it is dropping plans to launch its green farming assurance standard in April“

read the TFF thread here: https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/gfc-was-to-go-ahead-now-not-going-ahead.405234/
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