What is it with Africa ?

Exfarmer

Member
Location
Bury St Edmunds
An interesting article of a few years ago written by an Eritrean with his take on the reasons for failure of Western-style democracy in Africa, and I quote some of it below:

"If you ask almost all Africans what they want most from their leaders they will tell you;

1) Enough food to eat.

2) Clean water to drink

3) A roof over their heads

4) Accessible and affordable medical care

5) Education for their children

Elections are way down on the list of grassroots African priorities.

Food, water, shelter and medical care, if a countries leadership is getting these priorities taken care of then they are actually practicing democracy and if they don’t provide these services to their people they are not democratic, no matter the praised heaped on them by their neo-colonial masters in the west.

All of the nations of Africa except one are caught in the western elections trap. And all of Africa except one is bleeding, and in more than one way.

Many if not most African countries pay more in interest on their debts to western banks than the combined total of all expenditures on medical care and education.

Many if not most African countries suffer from food dependency, they do not grow enough food to feed their people.

Many if not most African countries are economic basket cases, even Nigeria with its oil, staggering from one western bankster emergency bailout to another.

Everywhere you look in Africa it seems you see conflict and war and everywhere you look you see western style “democracy”, elections.

It is so bad then when an election is held without a major outbreak of violence it is considered a “victory for African democracy” even if the serving president is the only one on the ballot (see “Liberia; Plenty ‘democracy’, No electricity”).

After WWII, the western colonialists found out the hard way that they couldn’t continue to militarily occupy their “possessions”, so they created neocolonialism to control Africa and used western style “democracy” to run it.

Traditionally, Africans practiced their own forms of “democracy”, most often via a council of elders persuading all parties to arrive at a consensus where everyone got something.

It wasn’t a win or lose situation like takes place in a western style election.

Being that all parties agreed to the final decision, all parties were duty bound to respect and enforce what they had agreed to, and thus the peace was kept and folks got along with each other.


As for national decisions, there were kings or high chiefs who almost always consulted a council of tribal or clan elders. In many societies, and this was a society of villages, there were oftentimes chiefs, but still the most often used dispute resolution was consensus, a mediation by elders. Peace was maintained and societal unity preserved.

Western “democracy” in Africa creates just the opposite. In Kenya, the Kikuyu, an ethnic minority installed in power by the departing British empire has to win the election or risk losing everything to their larger tribal rivals, the Luo. The result? Elections and thousands dead and hundreds of thousands displaced. This upcoming election may see even worse.


The Congo? Ethiopia? Even that supposed success story for African Democracy, Senegal, saw blood in the streets.

Yet there is one island of peace and stability in the midst of all this chaos and crisis. One place where the people of the country, especially the people of the villages, still some 70%, will tell you that the government has kept its promises, and the proof is there for all to see. The solar powered wells, the micro dams for irrigation, the medical clinics and schools, all are spreading to even the most remote villages.

HIV/AIDS down by 40%, the best in Africa by a mile, malaria mortality down 80%, the biggest breakthrough in malaria history. Maternal and infant mortality seeing “remarkable improvement” (from the World Bank, no less) and the Millennium Development goals all on track for achieving. And on top of this, the fastest growing economy in Africa.

The one real success story in Africa and the only country NOT to have elections.

Maybe, just maybe, not allowing western “democracy” is what it takes for Africa to succeed.

Eritrea and Eritreans want nothing to do with neocolonialism and “democracy” western style. No thanks, we have our own version of democracy, real democracy, and our people are seeing the benefits.

Paradise? No, life is still hard for most, but the very poorest are the priority and their lives have changed, dramatically.

In Africa the poor are most of the people and if you are not taking care of them first and foremost, you are NOT democratic.

If elections mean democracy, and sick and hungry children in their millions is business as usual than Eritreans will tell you to keep your “democracy”. This is about Africa’s one “undemocratic” country, where peace reigns and our lives are getting better, especially for those most in need.

Don’t shoot me, I am just the messenger, though a real believer in the message. I have lived here in Eritrea since 2006 and am telling you what I have witnessed and come to believe in."

EDIT: Oops, forgot to give the source :oops:

https://www.foreignpolicyjournal.com/2012/05/01/destroying-africa-with-western-democracy/

What complete rubbish, this must be one of the most outrageous posts I have ever read.
Eritrea has the highest percentage of emigration of any country in the world, there is a very good reason
Read up on your subject before writing such ballcocks pleas
 

Tigger

Member
Location
Worcestershire
What part of "I quote" did you not understand? Where did I say I was the author, or even that I agreed? I said "interesting" and it is, whether true or not.

tenor.gif
 

Exfarmer

Member
Location
Bury St Edmunds
Ok by saying writing such ballcocks, I should have put posting such ballcocks.
The piece is drivel. Eritrea is probably the worst governed state in Africa. It is beaten by a few others in mismanagement, but they have no central or other government.
Africa’s state of appalling governance owes far more of its problems to the cold war than any colonial mismanagement. Admittedly there were some grossly poor examples of mismanagement by some European countries. However the hypocritical use by certain nations of liberation groups, ensured that Democracy would never succeed in the newly enfranchised states. This gave rise to the “my turn now “ politics we see across the whole continent , where nations now are seen as gold mines by prospective kleptocrats.
 
Africans are very emotional people, rationale as a whole is not a strong point as a group, not to say indivduals dont have it. In sth Africa if a child is dismissed from school for poor behaviour they burn the school down and govt buildings etc, they place no value in the very infrastructure that serves them. So what is logical for white people to do and waht actions to take to build a society that functions and improve is not logical for them. This is an unfortunate reality and hence slow movement on progress. The infrastructure that white involvement put into Africa is fast going backwards.

I dont think an advanced Africa will look like an advanced western country...it wont make sense to us like our system doent make sense to them.

Ant...
 

Danllan

Member
Location
Sir Gar / Carms
Africans are very emotional people, rationale as a whole is not a strong point as a group, not to say indivduals dont have it. In sth Africa if a child is dismissed from school for poor behaviour they burn the school down and govt buildings etc, they place no value in the very infrastructure that serves them. So what is logical for white people to do and waht actions to take to build a society that functions and improve is not logical for them. This is an unfortunate reality and hence slow movement on progress. The infrastructure that white involvement put into Africa is fast going backwards.

I dont think an advanced Africa will look like an advanced western country...it wont make sense to us like our system doent make sense to them.

Ant...
Yes, but... what we have got does make sense to them and they want the same, they are jealous, even envious of it. However, for the greater part, they covet it but don't want the effort or responsibility of creating or maintaining it. :banghead:

As I wrote earlier, they just haven't (yet!) evolved the societal responsibility necessary to develop / maintain modern things, and the problem anyone who wants to call that statement 'racist' has, is that every single black African country and government - so far - has proven it. :(
 

uztrac

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
fakenham-norfolk
For the next couple of hundred years we should not concern ourselves about Africa whatsoever.The Chinese are pouring finance & people into the continent,farming building roads & railways,upgrading ports.Of course it is for the benefit of the Chinese who will probably colonise it in due course. No reason to question my post as I lived and worked in black African Agribusiness for in excess of 20 years.
 

Exfarmer

Member
Location
Bury St Edmunds
For the next couple of hundred years we should not concern ourselves about Africa whatsoever.The Chinese are pouring finance & people into the continent,farming building roads & railways,upgrading ports.Of course it is for the benefit of the Chinese who will probably colonise it in due course. No reason to question my post as I lived and worked in black African Agribusiness for in excess of 20 years.
I think their will be a backlash sooner than expected. The Chinese have currently paid the gold and bought the present leaders, but the next generation will expect the same and if they dont get it will soon turf out the Chinese to the next high bidder.
The Chinese are making the same mistake we did, except they are not building hospitals and schools
 
Yes, but... what we have got does make sense to them and they want the same, they are jealous, even envious of it. However, for the greater part, they covet it but don't want the effort or responsibility of creating or maintaining it. :banghead:

As I wrote earlier, they just haven't (yet!) evolved the societal responsibility necessary to develop / maintain modern things, and the problem anyone who wants to call that statement 'racist' has, is that every single black African country and government - so far - has proven it. :(

No fleeing there situation does not = how they want there country to be, thast an assumption.

Ant...
 

So just because people are fleeing to the west to escape there situation or want better - that does not mean thats how an advanced africa will look, there is no advanced africa at present (however there are pockets) so there only choice is the west.

Governments giving away free stuff - versus staying at home inm danger - does not equal what an advanced africa will look like. They value different things, different priorities and different goals.

Just because theres not an M1 circling the city full of beamers does not mean they are not succesful.

In the past they have tried to turn Africa into the west, its failed, China are trying and it will fail, there not asking the people - there asking governments - big difference.

Will they ever get to a better stage than where they are? who knows....if they all had oil and was the only place that had oil - the USA would have selected leaders in there and be trying to imbed the rule of law for stability.

They are still tribal in most parts except the very north.

Its a complex situation and i am not sure if it willl change in my life time - Asia is changing...still many poor areas to sort but slowly changing.

Crypto like Cardarno and OMG will be a massive boost for Asia.

Ant...
 

Danllan

Member
Location
Sir Gar / Carms
So just because people are fleeing to the west to escape there situation or want better - that does not mean thats how an advanced africa will look, there is no advanced africa at present (however there are pockets) so there only choice is the west...

The first thing you need to do is forget about 'Africa' being one region, it is at least two; for the purpose of this thread we are discussing black Africa, which is fairly easy to define and delineate.

I've mentioned African psychology elsewhere, but I would defy anyone to tell me they have a handle on it without having a good understanding of at least one local language - if you can't get what people are saying amongst themselves you won't get how they think.

That written, what they want, meaning what they pursue, is broadly similar to that elsewhere in the world; the point at discussion is that they 'want' it but are not willing / able to create it. The car of choice for affluent blacks is a Mercedes, hence the joke regarding Africa's most widespread and richest tribe, the Wabenzi…

I am not entirely certain what your overall point is, I think it is that Africa just won't be developed in the foreseeable future - maybe that it can't be. In either case I agree, although I think that what might be termed a Central American level of development is most likely
 

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