What is the time difference between Britain and France? 1 hour and 40 years...

Walterp

Member
Location
Pembrokeshire
France and Britain are similar countries in population, demography, GDP/head, and in their manufacturing and service sectors.

But Britain suffers by the comparison: France has higher living standards ($29,759 versus $26,687 average household disposable income, per OECD 2013), a more equal society, and a better health system, due to more progressive taxation.

Crucially, France is much more productive: the average Frenchman needs to work only Monday to Thursday to produce as much as a British worker from Monday to Friday.

Whilst greater labour market flexibility has produced higher British employment (73% versus 64%, per OECD 2016) and lower unemployment (4% versus 9% per Eurostat 2016), the French produce more, more efficiently, with less. The nexus between stagnant UK productivity, a depreciating currency, increasing inflation, an interest rate rise and concomitant cost of living problems will overshadow British politics in the future.

Distracting myths abound: France does not have a much larger state sector (both countries have roughly the same sized state employment at 5.5 million), French unemployment figures are actually over-stated because of health, pension and retraining rules (total inactivity in the 20 - 64 bracket is, in fact, lower than Britain), public spending in France is more sustainable (pensions are fully financed for the coming 25 years, care for the elderly is financed, and is not mushrooming), and company taxes are not higher (they are much lower, with the effective rate of CT at 12% due to numerous tax credits, versus a lower British headline rate but a higher effective rate of 20% thru’ fewer deductions.

France invests much more than Britain (top in Europe for FDI, per EY), has higher savings rates and lower household debts, lower poverty and inequalities (OECD, Eurostat) and is determined to focus on quality production rather than quantity.

Depressingly, in the Clarivate/Thomson Reuters Top 100 Global Innovators rankings, French companies appear at regular intervals - but there are no UK companies listed in the top 100.

In short, France tends to replace middle skilled jobs by higher skilled jobs, Britain by lower skilled jobs.

This explains why France has more economic potential than Britain.
 

Walterp

Member
Location
Pembrokeshire
That is, if I may say so, a churlish response to an OP that you actually suggested. There are quite a few interesting insights there, I suggest.

Please don't blame the messenger, if the message is not to your liking.
 

Clever Dic

Member
Location
Melton
That is, if I may say so, a churlish response to an OP that you actually suggested. There are quite a few interesting insights there, I suggest.

Please don't blame the messenger, if the message is not to your liking.
I don't understand Walter you quote the views of the New Zealand press and the Washington post when it suits and yet when presented by similarly veined articles but taking a different view to yours and given in the financial Times and Bloomberg you don't like it.
As for you being the messenger for me / others of a similar opinion to me ...
Well you are not short of self confidence just balance it seems.
 

Ashtree

Member
https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2017-05-16/the-french-economy-is-bad-in-a-crisis
https://www.ft.com/content/c33bafde-fe68-11e6-8d8e-a5e3738f9ae4

One from Bloomberg and one from the financial Times for you Walter.
If so deeply unhappy you should make the most of the relatively free movement.
Might make you happier a bit of sun.
Damn lies and statistics. .

No mention in those articles of French nuclear energy know how. The technology they will install at Hinckley Point. Don't be too downhearted. You guys can I'm sure make a valuable contribution also. Afterall every self respecting power plant will need a lick of paint and a few shrubs here and there. Just keep any eye on those Poles. They might get the work and send the cash back to Krackow!!
 

Clever Dic

Member
Location
Melton
That is, if I may say so, a churlish response to an OP that you actually suggested. There are quite a few interesting insights there, I suggest.

Please don't blame the messenger, if the message is not to your liking.
Please check on my posts Walter ..
The only OP I asked you directly to open was the joys of being British.
As you quite rightly say ....waiting.
 

Walterp

Member
Location
Pembrokeshire
No mention in those articles of French nuclear energy know how. The technology they will install at Hinckley Point. Don't be too downhearted. You guys can I'm sure make a valuable contribution also. Afterall every self respecting power plant will need a lick of paint and a few shrubs here and there. Just keep any eye on those Poles. They might get the work and send the cash back to Krackow!!
Actual true story: we have a 330 wind turbine on the place. It was a £1 million plus project.

The biggest single cost in the project was, naturally enough, the turbine itself. The site, although identified by a UK firm, was developed by a German who risked his own money plus capital borrowed from a French bank, on the back of experience acquired in German wind technology. The UK firm sold out at the first opportunity.

The machine was designed in Germany, manufactured in Poland (in a satellite plant of the German owners, due to pressure of work) and transported by a Dutch specialist haulier. It was erected by a crew of Poles and South Africans. The supervising engineers were Polish and German (who all were quadri-lingual: German, Polish, Russian and English) .

The only British input was the low-skilled work of concreting and track-laying - yet the subsidy is paid by British taxpayers.

Taught me a lot.
 

Ashtree

Member
Actual true story: we have a 330 wind turbine on the place. It was a £1 million plus project.

The biggest single cost in the project was, naturally enough, the turbine itself. The site, although identified by a UK firm, was developed by a German who risked his own money plus capital borrowed from a French bank, on the back of experience acquired in German wind technology. The UK firm sold out at the first opportunity.

The machine was designed in Germany, manufactured in Poland (in a satellite plant of the German owners, due to pressure of work) and transported by a Dutch specialist haulier. It was erected by a crew of Poles and South Africans. The supervising engineers were Polish and German (who all were quadri-lingual: German, Polish, Russian and English) .

The only British input was the low-skilled work of concreting and track-laying - yet the subsidy is paid by British taxpayers.

Taught me a lot.

Look at the farm machinery sector. UK a bit player now. Why? Is it liberal leftie liars fault? BBC maybe! Is it Junker I wonder?
 

czechmate

Member
Mixed Farmer
Again, an anti English racist post. You really should go and live in France if it's so fantastic.

I've never encountered such a degree of racism from a poster, on any other forums I frequent.


So, just imagine if where you lived, half the folk treated you in such a way because you were a bit dark or spoke with an accent?
Racism, pah - oh yes I used to feel soooo proud to be English/British when I used to take my young daughter to watch Leicester and thousands would be chanting "you black barsteward" :(
 

ski

Member
Actual true story: we have a 330 wind turbine on the place. It was a £1 million plus project.

The biggest single cost in the project was, naturally enough, the turbine itself. The site, although identified by a UK firm, was developed by a German who risked his own money plus capital borrowed from a French bank, on the back of experience acquired in German wind technology. The UK firm sold out at the first opportunity.

The machine was designed in Germany, manufactured in Poland (in a satellite plant of the German owners, due to pressure of work) and transported by a Dutch specialist haulier. It was erected by a crew of Poles and South Africans. The supervising engineers were Polish and German (who all were quadri-lingual: German, Polish, Russian and English) .

The only British input was the low-skilled work of concreting and track-laying - yet the subsidy is paid by British taxpayers.

Taught me a lot.
Well, it would tell me a lot more about Capital being in charge and seeking the best rate of return and not caring for anything else. The de-skilling of the UK workforce is happening across all western economies with the notable exception of Germany though even they are not immune from it's effects, and your answer would seem is more of the same medicine. You have commented on Lincoln's dictum that I like, yet your comment about "the low skilled work" etc mark you out as an elitist. You rile against that which you are encouraging yet your dogma prevents you from seeing it. As John Candy said in JFK,"You got the right ta-ta, but the wrong ho-ho."

Only the hurt, hurt.
 

Walterp

Member
Location
Pembrokeshire
Well, it would tell me a lot more about Capital being in charge and seeking the best rate of return and not caring for anything else. The de-skilling of the UK workforce is happening across all western economies with the notable exception of Germany though even they are not immune from it's effects, and your answer would seem is more of the same medicine. You have commented on Lincoln's dictum that I like, yet your comment about "the low skilled work" etc mark you out as an elitist. You rile against that which you are encouraging yet your dogma prevents you from seeing it. As John Candy said in JFK,"You got the right ta-ta, but the wrong ho-ho."

Only the hurt, hurt.
Could I invite you to re-order your thoughts, excising what you think I said (but didn't) and stating a clear conclusion?

As it stands, I don't understand what you trying to say.

I am sure there is an important point in there, trying to get out, but you are at risk of smothering it at birth.
 
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ski

Member
W

Would you like to re-order your thoughts, excising what you think I said (but didn't) and stating a clear conclusion?

As it stands, I don't understand what you trying to say.

I am sure there is an important point in there, trying to get out, but you are at risk of smothering it at birth.

I'm a long way from any conclusions, unlike you, I'm still thinking .....

I enjoy you posts a lot, direct and challenging though perhaps could we have them at a slower rate so we may chew a little more!
 

bobk

Member
Location
stafford
Our respective populations are very similar, as is the number in public sector employment.

So it's a myth that France has a bloated public sector - both countries are in much the same situation, actually.

Wrong , france has active population of 19m people of which 5.7m are public workers
UK has 30.7m workers of which 5.24m are public sector .
Plus nearly 3m EU workers....

Busted..
 

Walterp

Member
Location
Pembrokeshire
I'm a long way from any conclusions, unlike you, I'm still thinking .....

I enjoy you posts a lot, direct and challenging though perhaps could we have them at a slower rate so we may chew a little more!
You are very kind - I had in mind the last two OPs for sometime in the future, and was still mulling over the subjects, but was goaded (or, more realistically, tempted) into advancing them.

I reached some conclusions I didn't expect, or at least only half-realised, which I suppose is why I enjoy the process.

Example: the UK Press constantly implies that we have an inflated 'service sector' relative to manufacturing, yet both Germany and France (as have many other developed countries) have a similar ratio - it's what a mature Western economy looks like. I thought otherwise, because I believed the implications of the Press, but another very kind commentator explained the actuality to me.

On France, I was with Bob in his opinion, until I looked into it for myself. I then changé mon avis.
 
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Hindsight

Member
Location
Lincolnshire
You are very kind - I had in mind the last two OPs for sometime in the future, and was still mulling over the subjects, but was goaded (or, more realistically, tempted) into advancing them.

I reached some conclusions I didn't expect, or at least only half-realised, which I suppose is why I enjoy the process.

Example: the UK Press constantly implies that we have an inflated 'service sector' relative to manufacturing, yet both Germany and France (as have many other developed countries) have a similar ratio - it's what a mature Western economy looks like. I thought otherwise, because I believed the implications of the Press, but another very kind commentator explained the actuality to me.

On France, I was with Bob in his opinion, until I looked into it for myself. I then changé mon avis.


UK is still one of the major manufacturing countries in the world. Quite a good item on More or Less a year or two back. The modern western economy revolves around services provided to others. It is just that this term services implies to many folk not 'making something' or 'digging something out of the ground'. That this 'service' could have a value and in the eyes of the recipients may be valued more than a physical item (such as food) annoys some folk who have an artisan view of what is purposeful in life and in society. Hey ho, such is a developed economy, that if it is developed?!

.
 

will l

Member
Arable Farmer
You are very kind - I had in mind the last two OPs for sometime in the future, and was still mulling over the subjects, but was goaded (or, more realistically, tempted) into advancing them.

I reached some conclusions I didn't expect, or at least only half-realised, which I suppose is why I enjoy the process.

Example: the UK Press constantly implies that we have an inflated 'service sector' relative to manufacturing, yet both Germany and France (as have many other developed countries) have a similar ratio - it's what a mature Western economy looks like. I thought otherwise, because I believed the implications of the Press, but another very kind commentator explained the actuality to me.

On France, I was with Bob in his opinion, until I looked into it for myself. I then changé mon avis.
remember when the state owns water gas electricity supplies as well as trains etc that alone boosts state employees,only since january 2016 have i been able to buy electricity from a non state owned company,
It also owns all hospitals and schools, even the local health centre and old folks home, very little work for the state is subcontracted,the local town has a team of 4 full time workers on maintainance, every job in france is a proper job, no self employed or zero hour contracts, only 2 types of employment contract exist CDD and CDI,
 

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