What is the time difference between Britain and France? 1 hour and 40 years...

[Hindsight]

remember when the state owns water gas electricity supplies as well as trains etc that alone boosts state employees,only since january 2016 have i been able to buy electricity from a non state owned company,
It also owns all hospitals and schools, even the local health centre and old folks home, very little work for the state is subcontracted,the local town has a team of 4 full time workers on maintainance, every job in france is a proper job, no self employed or zero hour contracts, only 2 types of employment contract exist CDD and CDI,

Thank you. I was aware one of the main differences between Franc and UK is less privatisation of utilities and 'essential' services.

I did like your reference to 'proper job' with the inference zero hours and self employed are not 'proper jobs' though as you caveat the sentence with reference to two types of employment contract I appreciate that what I think you mean refers to employment type not job type. My we have another grammar thread coming I forsee.

Regards.

 

[Muck Spreader]

Wrong , france has active population of 19m people of which 5.7m are public workers
UK has 30.7m workers of which 5.24m are public sector .
Plus nearly 3m EU workers....

Busted..

I don't know were you get these figures from, but as I understand France has an active population of 28 million compared to the UK with 31 million. To try and work out who has the most public sector employees and what significance this would have is meaningless. For example the UK has the NHS one of the biggest public employers in the world but it also has a huge public/private sector such as G4S the railways energy etc etc, where as France would be seen to have the reverse of this. It would be very difficult to compare to two countries in any meaningful way as they both have very different ideologies and social goals.

 

[Hindsight]

I don't know were you get these figures from, but as I understand France has an active population of 28 million compared to the UK with 31 million. To try and work out who has the most public sector employees and what significance this would have is meaningless. For example the UK has the NHS one of the biggest public employers in the world but it also has a huge public/private sector such as G4S the railways energy etc etc, where as France would be seen to have the reverse of this. It would be very difficult to compare to two countries in any meaningful way as they both have very different ideologies and social goals.

That's more like it. Given that UK and French GDP are every similar and with similar overall populations Bobk statement did puzzle me. Both countries are in my view similar western European countries. So it seems to me in general the cost of providing a service is probably similar within a few percentage points in both. Then comes down to good organisation. As I say I do not leave the East Midlands often so would not know first hand.

But me thoughts are - if I want a cheap doctor I have to go to a country with a totally different value to the local currency where a doctor is paid well in local terms but not in western terms once currency factored in. Hence why a few years ago this time of year all the potato grading lines were staffed with Ukraine and Baltic State uni students saving up to pay for their education. Not sure if true but one figure that stuck in my mind one day chatting to a Ukraine lass on a grading line about 10 years ago was a season grading spuds paid for a three year uni course in Kiev. Also made me tell my kids they were fundamentally at a disadvantage being born British. No language skills and plenty bright kids elsewhere in the world who could now travel as the iron curtain gone. Hey ho. Put country of birth into perspective.

 

[Muck Spreader]

Thank you. I was aware one of the main differences between Franc and UK is less privatisation of utilities and 'essential' services.

I did like your reference to 'proper job' with the inference zero hours and self employed are not 'proper jobs' though as you caveat the sentence with reference to two types of employment contract I appreciate that what I think you mean refers to employment type not job type. My we have another grammar thread coming I forsee.

Regards.

France's problem is that every job is a proper one. It makes it very expensive and onerous to employ anyone. If you are an employer social charges can almost double the cost of an employee, plus the labour laws are far more extensive than the UK. These even including strange things like an employees right to one sabbatical year off in his working life. Macron is hoping to reform some of this to make it more attractive and less burdensome to employ someone in the future, but he will have a fight on his hands.

 

[Hindsight]

France's problem is that every job is a proper one. It makes it very expensive and onerous to employ anyone. If you are an employer social charges can almost double the cost of an employee, plus the labour laws are far more extensive than the UK. These even including strange things like an employees right to one sabbatical year off in his working life. Macron is hoping to reform some of this to make it more attractive and less burdensome to employ someone in the future, but he will have a fight on his hands.

Yes, indeed. Macron will find it a struggle. Thatcher did. So WaltP original post heading 40 years maybe more true than at first glance??

 

[Muck Spreader]

No mention in those articles of French nuclear energy know how. The technology they will install at Hinckley Point. Don't be too downhearted. You guys can I'm sure make a valuable contribution also. Afterall every self respecting power plant will need a lick of paint and a few shrubs here and there. Just keep any eye on those Poles. They might get the work and send the cash back to Krackow!!

Just another case of the UK being world leaders in nuclear energy in the 50's and 60's then a total lack of investment in the whole sector by numerous governments since. So, the likes of the nuclear physicists we had are now retiring en mass and the ones who should be replacing them are finding far more lucrative positions mostly in the financial sector.

 

[will l]

France's problem is that every job is a proper one. It makes it very expensive and onerous to employ anyone. If you are an employer social charges can almost double the cost of an employee, plus the labour laws are far more extensive than the UK. These even including strange things like an employees right to one sabbatical year off in his working life. Macron is hoping to reform some of this to make it more attractive and less burdensome to employ someone in the future, but he will have a fight on his hands.

The argument against reform of the "code de travail" is why should we have lesser rights than our parents "how can that be progress" not saying they are right though,

 

[bobk]

I don't know were you get these figures from, but as I understand France has an active population of 28 million compared to the UK with 31 million. To try and work out who has the most public sector employees and what significance this would have is meaningless. For example the UK has the NHS one of the biggest public employers in the world but it also has a huge public/private sector such as G4S the railways energy etc etc, where as France would be seen to have the reverse of this. It would be very difficult to compare to two countries in any meaningful way as they both have very different ideologies and social goals.

Can't remember , anyway your figure of is 28m is the 18-64 age group , everyone retires at 60 in france ....

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...rances-active-workforce-living-off-state.html

 

[will l]

Thank you. I was aware one of the main differences between Franc and UK is less privatisation of utilities and 'essential' services.

I did like your reference to 'proper job' with the inference zero hours and self employed are not 'proper jobs' though as you caveat the sentence with reference to two types of employment contract I appreciate that what I think you mean refers to employment type not job type. My we have another grammar thread coming I forsee.

Regards.

What i was refering to was the possibility of someone taking a piece of metal to a scrap yard getting a receipt and registering as self employed,
CDI Contrat à durée indéterminée full time job
CDD Contrat à durée déterminée job for a fixed period maximum 18 months

 

[will l]

Can't remember , anyway your figure of is 28m is the 18-64 age group , everyone retires at 60 in france ....

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...rances-active-workforce-living-off-state.html

That includes farmers as state employees or have i misread it?
The full retirement pension is paid only after 42 qualifying years of social contributions,

 

[bobk]

Juncker was extolling the growth currently happening in the EU , nothing to do with them printing 80 billion euro a month then

 

[Jackov Altraids]

UK is still one of the major manufacturing countries in the world. Quite a good item on More or Less a year or two back. The modern western economy revolves around services provided to others. It is just that this term services implies to many folk not 'making something' or 'digging something out of the ground'. That this 'service' could have a value and in the eyes of the recipients may be valued more than a physical item (such as food) annoys some folk who have an artisan view of what is purposeful in life and in society. Hey ho, such is a developed economy, that if it is developed?!

.

A good post in an excellent thread.
The trouble , as I see it, is that this modern developed economy that relies heavily on services is dependent on the developing countries doing 'the dirty work'.
Many of these will become 'developed' in the near future while employment here will be coming under increased threat from A.I, automation and computerisation.
Every country really needs to have a firm view as to how to manage this future without it becoming a two-tier society.

 

[Walterp]

Juncker was extolling the growth currently happening in the EU , nothing to do with them printing 80 billion euro a month then

May I ask if you are just repeating something that you read, here, rather than using your own judgement?

I ask because the way that QE functions (in the Eurozone or elsewhere) is fairly remote from actual economic activity, and the link - and its ongoing efficacy - is often questioned.

Assuming that QE works, why not do more of it?

 

[Jackov Altraids]

...... and never get paid back?.......

 

[stewart]

I have to agree with the title, although I think Walt is being generous in the 1 hour plus 40 years. I have lived outside the UK for 18 years and every time I visit it astounds me how tired and run down everything looks compared to your near neighbours over the channel.
For the last 3 years I have spent a week in the U.K. And about 3 weeks driving around different parts of Europe. There is a world of difference between them, generally Europe is clean and tidy whereas the U.K. Is the complete opposite. Why doesn't someone cut the roadside verges and why do livestock farmers not try and keep the weeds down?

 

[stewart]

France and Britain are similar countries in population, demography, GDP/head, and in their manufacturing and service sectors.

But Britain suffers by the comparison: France has higher living standards ($29,759 versus $26,687 average household disposable income, per OECD 2013), a more equal society, and a better health system, due to more progressive taxation.

Crucially, France is much more productive: the average Frenchman needs to work only Monday to Thursday to produce as much as a British worker from Monday to Friday.

Whilst greater labour market flexibility has produced higher British employment (73% versus 64%, per OECD 2016) and lower unemployment (4% versus 9% per Eurostat 2016), the French produce more, more efficiently, with less. The nexus between stagnant UK productivity, a depreciating currency, increasing inflation, an interest rate rise and concomitant cost of living problems will overshadow British politics in the future.

Distracting myths abound: France does not have a much larger state sector (both countries have roughly the same sized state employment at 5.5 million), French unemployment figures are actually over-stated because of health, pension and retraining rules (total inactivity in the 20 - 64 bracket is, in fact, lower than Britain), public spending in France is more sustainable (pensions are fully financed for the coming 25 years, care for the elderly is financed, and is not mushrooming), and company taxes are not higher (they are much lower, with the effective rate of CT at 12% due to numerous tax credits, versus a lower British headline rate but a higher effective rate of 20% thru’ fewer deductions.

France invests much more than Britain (top in Europe for FDI, per EY), has higher savings rates and lower household debts, lower poverty and inequalities (OECD, Eurostat) and is determined to focus on quality production rather than quantity.

Depressingly, in the Clarivate/Thomson Reuters Top 100 Global Innovators rankings, French companies appear at regular intervals - but there are no UK companies listed in the top 100.

In short, France tends to replace middle skilled jobs by higher skilled jobs, Britain by lower skilled jobs.

This explains why France has more economic potential than Britain.

Walt. After reading through your post a couple of times I would suggest you look at moving to a country that suits your social cultural and political aspirations. At least whilst you are still in the EU it is relatively easy to do. Things may alter post Brexit.

 

[rob1]

I have to agree with the title, although I think Walt is being generous in the 1 hour plus 40 years. I have lived outside the UK for 18 years and every time I visit it astounds me how tired and run down everything looks compared to your near neighbours over the channel.
For the last 3 years I have spent a week in the U.K. And about 3 weeks driving around different parts of Europe. There is a world of difference between them, generally Europe is clean and tidy whereas the U.K. Is the complete opposite. Why doesn't someone cut the roadside verges and why do livestock farmers not try and keep the weeds down?

because its for environmenatal reasons, lots of life in an uncut verge, drive through france each year and austria this year plenty of mess there too and was shocked by how rough the part of switzerland was, as for america when we went there in 2012 that was an eye opener away from the main cities . To e fair the uk is densley populated compared to many other countries and that means the same mess but more concentrated if you know what I mean, but its true too moany litter louts here

 

[stewart]

because its for environmenatal reasons, lots of life in an uncut verge, drive through france each year and austria this year plenty of mess there too and was shocked by how rough the part of switzerland was, as for america when we went there in 2012 that was an eye opener away from the main cities . To e fair the uk is densley populated compared to many other countries and that means the same mess but more concentrated if you know what I mean, but its true too moany litter louts here

So if the verges are left uncut to help wildlife thrive what about all the weeds in the paddocks? is that for the same reason? Surely as farmers it would be more productive to grow grass than thistles and ragwort.
Over the course of three years we have covered a lot of Europe and a variety of countries within Europe, we keep away from the main tourist areas so it is not kept clean just for the visitors. I see the odd untidy place but that is minimal, in general everything looks tidy and the farms seem to be very well run.

 

[rob1]

So if the verges are left uncut to help wildlife thrive what about all the weeds in the paddocks? is that for the same reason? Surely as farmers it would be more productive to grow grass than thistles and ragwort.
Over the course of three years we have covered a lot of Europe and a variety of countries within Europe, we keep away from the main tourist areas so it is not kept clean just for the visitors. I see the odd untidy place but that is minimal, in general everything looks tidy and the farms seem to be very well run.

Perhaps profit is bigger abroad for various reasons so more time maybe a wetter climate here grows more weeds, prob a lot of reasons

 

[stewart]

Perhaps profit is bigger abroad for various reasons so more time maybe a wetter climate here grows more weeds, prob a lot of reasons

Profit could be bigger as they may be more efficient, not a lot of profit in weeds.