What Pick Up Truck...?

Johnnyboxer

Member
Location
Yorkshire
20 years ago you bought a pickup with 100hp no emissions gubbins and flogged it everywhere you went to make any progress. Now you buy a pickup with double the hp, dpf, egr, adblue etc and potter about trying to get mpg from it. Never gets flogged never gets warm short journeys etc. If engine never gets any proper heat into it it'll never burn clean so recycles its own soot through itself all the time. Viscous circle. Oh and some of the crap in fuel now doesn't help either.

True enough
I have an old 2.5 d4d turbo Hiace van
88bhp
No ad blue or dpf rubbish or egr
Does 35-40 mpg ( & better than my 3l Hilux on mpg )
Village garage says it's a proper diesel and not strangled like the new stuff
Will cruise at 75mph on motorway for 300 miles - top bus
 

Cowabunga

Member
Location
Ceredigion,Wales
Might as well add on to this thread - nobody wants another what pickup thread!

Have a 13 plate hilux, not high miles but has lost power twice now and been unable to start (no solution yet) and had to have dpf unclogged.

Lost a little faith in it. May well have a small van in replacement if i was to change, as need to tow has reduced significantly. If i did go for a pickup, what's best for short (6mile) journeys, without a long run that regularly (especially this yesr)? After Dpf issues, this may well be a factor next time.
Anything with a DPF directly bolted onto the turbo rather than remotely situated a couple of feet away down the exhaust pipe. Or a petrol engine.
 

Cowabunga

Member
Location
Ceredigion,Wales
20 years ago you bought a pickup with 100hp no emissions gubbins and flogged it everywhere you went to make any progress. Now you buy a pickup with double the hp, dpf, egr, adblue etc and potter about trying to get mpg from it. Never gets flogged never gets warm short journeys etc. If engine never gets any proper heat into it it'll never burn clean so recycles its own soot through itself all the time. Viscous circle. Oh and some of the crap in fuel now doesn't help either.
Your pickup probably had EGR 20 years ago. Everything of that type with a Diesel engine since 1993 have had EGR and from 1998 a Cat. From 2008 on, many had DPF as well. It was an extra cost option on a 2006 Audi Q7, because I remember declining to order it on my new car back then.
All a modern engine needs to get warm enough to regenerate the DPF is about a ten mile journey under load at about 1500 rpm to 2500 rpm. The far greater power density of modern engines may give the impression that they are lightly loaded but if driven at the same speed as those old 50 to 70hp engines, they will be loaded and produce plenty of heat. The issue with DPF's is that some just potter around and never get a chance to get hot and that some inferior designs have the DPF mounted remotely from the engine, where there is excessive heat loss by the time the gas reaches the filter.

You would have thought that car designers would have known this after many years of experience with DPF's, but some still make a dog's dinner of it. Up until earlier this year, all JLR's new Ingenium Diesel engines fitted transversely had, indeed have, massive issues with poor DPF performance, repeated failed regenerations and subsequent dilution of the sump lubricating oil. The same engines mounted in-line in Jaguar F-Pace, RR Velar and Discovery5 never has this issue, because there was room to fit the DPF to the side of the engine directly mounted to the turbocharger.

That is not to paint all transverse engine vehicles with the same brush. I have three such vehicles and I wouldn't have bought any of them if the DPF was remotely mounted down the pipe.
 
Your pickup probably had EGR 20 years ago. Everything of that type with a Diesel engine since 1993 have had EGR and from 1998 a Cat. From 2008 on, many had DPF as well. It was an extra cost option on a 2006 Audi Q7, because I remember declining to order it on my new car back then.
All a modern engine needs to get warm enough to regenerate the DPF is about a ten mile journey under load at about 1500 rpm to 2500 rpm. The far greater power density of modern engines may give the impression that they are lightly loaded but if driven at the same speed as those old 50 to 70hp engines, they will be loaded and produce plenty of heat. The issue with DPF's is that some just potter around and never get a chance to get hot and that some inferior designs have the DPF mounted remotely from the engine, where there is excessive heat loss by the time the gas reaches the filter.

You would have thought that car designers would have known this after many years of experience with DPF's, but some still make a dog's dinner of it. Up until earlier this year, all JLR's new Ingenium Diesel engines fitted transversely had, indeed have, massive issues with poor DPF performance, repeated failed regenerations and subsequent dilution of the sump lubricating oil. The same engines mounted in-line in Jaguar F-Pace, RR Velar and Discovery5 never has this issue, because there was room to fit the DPF to the side of the engine directly mounted to the turbocharger.

That is not to paint all transverse engine vehicles with the same brush. I have three such vehicles and I wouldn't have bought any of them if the DPF was remotely mounted down the pipe.
Depends upon dpf type as well. Some have injector in the dpf or the exhaust just before it to inject fuel to burn off the soot inside. Most of the sump contamination types rely on upping injector pressure so not all the fuel burns off in the combustion chamber (isuzu). Older dpfs were very basic as well tbh. Same with egr, yes it might have been there years ago but would be putting a v minimal about of exhaust gas back through the engine.
 
Cant beat the reliability and the new Hilux is definitely a step up from previous models.
IMG_20201229_075444.jpg
 

ricky_rascal

Member
Location
N. Yorks
Cant beat the reliability and the new Hilux is definitely a step up from previous models. View attachment 930031
Don’t like the look of that rust creeping up the doors ;)

Know a chap with a 2.4 (I think) three year old hilux invincible. Seems a good truck. No problems and the few times I’ve driven it thought it nice enough. If I was buying I’d certainly have a look at one.
 

Cowabunga

Member
Location
Ceredigion,Wales
Depends upon dpf type as well. Some have injector in the dpf or the exhaust just before it to inject fuel to burn off the soot inside. Most of the sump contamination types rely on upping injector pressure so not all the fuel burns off in the combustion chamber (isuzu). Older dpfs were very basic as well tbh. Same with egr, yes it might have been there years ago but would be putting a v minimal about of exhaust gas back through the engine.
I keep forgetting that my Ranger has had a DPF issue. A warning light on the dash that turned out to be a faulty dpf injector on its remote mounted unit. Ford call this an ‘evaporator’ rather than injector. Changed it for a cheaper non-Ford unit maybe three years ago and its been fine since. Never did block the dpf or anything serious.

couldn’t comment on the quantity of egr on those older engines other than they had throttle valves in the intake and large enough valves and transfer pipes that compare with current systems. The main difference today is greater precision and the extra complication of coolers, quite apart from the extra systems and sensors. Used to look down on a plain rocker cover but remove the plastic dome off an engine today and all you see are pipes, wires, connectors and more of the same. Must be hours of work just to get to the proper cover.
 

dave mountain

Member
Livestock Farmer
Sounds a very sensible buy. Local main dealer?
Any main dealer, nfu discount is just a set % off RRP, 23.5k doesn't include extras though. Aftermarket tow bar is about £230 with genuine Toyota wiring kit, another £100 for bed liner, not really sure what else you could want on a work truck as invincible are high spec as standard. Under £24k+vat all in.
 
Any main dealer, nfu discount is just a set % off RRP, 23.5k doesn't include extras though. Aftermarket tow bar is about £230 with genuine Toyota wiring kit, another £100 for bed liner, not really sure what else you could want on a work truck as invincible are high spec as standard. Under £24k+vat all in.

No harm in having a high spec model- it's the sat nav, alloys and posh interior options that give a strong resale value for these trucks a few years down the line. A bottom of the range, more blanks than switches and steel wheels won't help your case in this respect though I know some people aren't too worried when it comes to being sympathetic to their vehicles and would happily use them as a fallen stock collection unit if needs be.
 

dave mountain

Member
Livestock Farmer
No harm in having a high spec model- it's the sat nav, alloys and posh interior options that give a strong resale value for these trucks a few years down the line. A bottom of the range, more blanks than switches and steel wheels won't help your case in this respect though I know some people aren't too worried when it comes to being sympathetic to their vehicles and would happily use them as a fallen stock collection unit if needs be.
There is truth to that but I doubt you'd get back the extra initial cost. if Toyota offered a poverty spec 2.8 that would most likely be what I'd go for as I intend to keep a long time, and the older it gets the less difference the spec makes to the value. However, as they don't offer that it will be an invincible when I change. Tried a 2.4, a dmax and others and they had less pull than my 1996 landcruiser, don't want to take a step backwards just for the sake of going newer.
 

SFI - What % were you taking out of production?

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Red Tractor drops launch of green farming scheme amid anger from farmers

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As reported in Independent


quote: “Red Tractor has confirmed it is dropping plans to launch its green farming assurance standard in April“

read the TFF thread here: https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/gfc-was-to-go-ahead-now-not-going-ahead.405234/
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