What ram for hoggs

[andybk]

problem is you use a type of sheep that causes issues ,dead lambs hurt ! so you adopt a survival plan like tubing everything , or dragging each ewe in as above , but when you eventually change breed, your system and your team are locked into a way of doing things frightened to change based on past experience , This issue is mainly down to the pedigree end breeding from unsuitable sheep that tick all the selling boxes but not the living boxes , BFL is a case in point that have taken it to a new level way a head of the suffolk , a breed that should be everything , but pure is a nightmare , saved only by its fantastic hybrid vigour .

 

[SteveHants]

problem is you use a type of sheep that causes issues ,dead lambs hurt ! so you adopt a survival plan like tubing everything , or dragging each ewe in as above , but when you eventually change breed, your system and your team are locked into a way of doing things frightened to change based on past experience , This issue is mainly down to the pedigree end breeding from unsuitable sheep that tick all the selling boxes but not the living boxes , BFL is a case in point that have taken it to a new level way a head of the suffolk , a breed that should be everything , but pure is a nightmare , saved only by its fantastic hybrid vigour .

There must be a niche for developing a suitably more hardy milksheep type crossing line for mules.

I know that's kind of what the Aberfield is for, but I've not always heard glowing reviews of them - however we have some rams at work, so I'll be keeping an eye. Also think people did play around with other sheep of this type before but didn't get very far.....

 

[Sheep92]

be interesting to know what breed of ewe and ram he uses , wonder if there is a suffolk in the mix somewhere ?

Would have a mixture of everything, poll dorset mules, texel and romney

 

[Woolless]

problem is you use a type of sheep that causes issues ,dead lambs hurt ! so you adopt a survival plan like tubing everything , or dragging each ewe in as above , but when you eventually change breed, your system and your team are locked into a way of doing things frightened to change based on past experience , This issue is mainly down to the pedigree end breeding from unsuitable sheep that tick all the selling boxes but not the living boxes , BFL is a case in point that have taken it to a new level way a head of the suffolk , a breed that should be everything , but pure is a nightmare , saved only by its fantastic hybrid vigour .

The latest I heard was that some BFL strains are struggling for milk and are hard pressed to rear more than one lamb. This was from a BFL breeder

 

[neilo]

The latest I heard was that some BFL strains are struggling for milk and are hard pressed to rear more than one lamb. This was from a BFL breeder

I bet they have nice, coloured heads though.

 

[M-J-G]

The latest I heard was that some BFL strains are struggling for milk and are hard pressed to rear more than one lamb. This was from a BFL breeder

One breeder making suggestion that another breeders sheep are struggling on an important trait, I can't believe that would ever happen

I bet they have nice, coloured heads though.

But plenty of Blues manage to mate ewes on places like Mull and the Highlands and produce daughters that run on pretty marginal uplands, so some breeders must still have a clue.
I'm not saying I'm a huge blue fan, but not all are selected on face markings

 

[Woolless]

One breeder making suggestion that another breeders sheep are struggling on an important trait, I can't believe that would ever happen


But plenty of Blues manage to mate ewes on places like Mull and the Highlands and produce daughters that run on pretty marginal uplands, so some breeders must still have a clue.
I'm not saying I'm a huge blue fan, but not all are selected on face markings

He didn't name names and in fact the suggestion was that it had inadvertently affected his own flock. Plus I am unlikely to be in the market for a BFL tup! You are right of course, some breeders will still be doing the right thing. There are a few even recording with Signet now. But the main yardstick for many is what a pen of ewe lambs off their tups look like on sale day.

 

[andybk]

There must be a niche for developing a suitably more hardy milksheep type crossing line for mules.

I know that's kind of what the Aberfield is for, but I've not always heard glowing reviews of them - however we have some rams at work, so I'll be keeping an eye. Also think people did play around with other sheep of this type before but didn't get very far.....

there is The Zwartbles (the friesian type not the holstien type) ) its why we brought them in from holland to compete with the BFL on hill ewes then back to terminal , was going good till the hobby farmers took over made them big and raw . Zwartbles x charollais were top priced stores and ewe lambs at Wilton fair this last sept at around £100 per head (not mine)

 

[SteveHants]

there is The Zwartbles (the friesian type not the holstien type) ) its why we brought them in from holland , was going good till the hobby farmers took over made them big and raw . Zwartbles x charollais were top priced stores and ewe lambs at Wilton fair this last sept at around £100 per head

The pedigree lot absolutely ruined the Wilts too - its major plus points were lambing out unassisted, shedding and doing off nothing and they buggered two of the three by bringing them in and feeding them nuts. If I ever run a hobby flock again (the voices keep telling me to rent some land and put sheep on it, I keep stamping on them, but they seen to keep popping back up), Wilts would be a contender but I have no idea where you'd get decent ones now

 

[Woolless]

The pedigree lot absolutely ruined the Wilts too - its major plus points were lambing out unassisted, shedding and doing off nothing and they buggered two of the three by bringing them in and feeding them nuts. If I ever run a hobby flock again (the voices keep telling me to rent some land and put sheep on it, I keep stamping on them, but they seen to keep popping back up), Wilts would be a contender but I have no idea where you'd get decent ones now

@Tim W might have an idea, if the voices in your head get really insistent...

 

[SteveHants]

@Tim W might have an idea, if the voices in your head get really insistent...

The last time I had them, that is from whence they came, but as far as I know, the last of his went some time ago.

 

[Woolless]

The last time I had them, that is from whence they came, but as far as I know, the last of his went some time ago.

I think there might be some folks that record them with Signet, which suggests a more commercial approach.

 

[Ysgythan]

I think there might be some folks that record them with Signet, which suggests a more commercial approach.

That Venn diagram wouldn’t be as close to a circle as you may imagine…

 

[M-J-G]

He didn't name names and in fact the suggestion was that it had inadvertently affected his own flock. Plus I am unlikely to be in the market for a BFL tup! You are right of course, some breeders will still be doing the right thing. There are a few even recording with Signet now. But the main yardstick for many is what a pen of ewe lambs off their tups look like on sale day.

Most won't name names, but the typical it happened to me is common, thankfully we nipped it in the bud

Is it so crazy that people produce what sells best on sale day?
People ran blackies and took a tenner for lambs for years, if putting a spotty Leicester over them gets them a premium and people are happy to pay it, isn't that OK?

 

[Woolless]

Most won't name names, but the typical it happened to me is common, thankfully we nipped it in the bud

Is it so crazy that people produce what sells best on sale day?
People ran blackies and took a tenner for lambs for years, if putting a spotty Leicester over them gets them a premium and people are happy to pay it, isn't that OK?

That's the whole point, folks are becoming less happy with it all the time. Those that have bred on aesthetics at the expense of everything else are reducing demand for the mule all the time. They're not the sheep for me but it is a shame as you rightly point it, they have helped keep sheep on the hills and are a great advert for hybrid vigour.

 

[M-J-G]

That's the whole point, folks are becoming less happy with it all the time. Those that have bred on aesthetics at the expense of everything else are reducing demand for the mule all the time. They're not the sheep for me but it is a shame as you rightly point it, they have helped keep sheep on the hills and are a great advert for hybrid vigour.

Are they that much less popular?

They are not for me either, but they still sell very well so buyers must still want them.
I can think of a lot of breeds and crosses that sell less well than mules.
The main reason for mule numbers being in decline is the huge drop in the number of hill ewes to produce them.

 

[M-J-G]

there is The Zwartbles (the friesian type not the holstien type) ) its why we brought them in from holland to compete with the BFL on hill ewes then back to terminal , was going good till the hobby farmers took over made them big and raw . Zwartbles x charollais were top priced stores and ewe lambs at Wilton fair this last sept at around £100 per head (not mine)

Why replace a BFL that's been selected for face markings with a Zwartbles that has been selected for face markings.

 

[Agrivator]

Why replace a BFL that's been selected for face markings with a Zwartbles that has been selected for face markings.

You obviously don't go to many Mule ewe-lamb sales. If a pen of lambs don't have descent size and shape, good heads regardless of colour, and good skins and a good reputation, they won't command much attention regardless of face markings.

But if two pens of lambs are identical in every other way, those with bonny heads will almost always sell better. And why not. The head is the most important part of any sheep or beef animal - it's the first thing any decent stockman looks at.

 

[M-J-G]

You obviously don't go to many Mule ewe-lamb sales. If a pen of lambs don't have descent size and shape, good heads regardless of colour, and good skins and a good reputation, they won't command much attention regardless of face markings.

But if two pens of lambs are identical in every other way, those with bonny heads will almost always sell better. And why not. The head is the most important part of any sheep or beef animal - it's the first thing any decent stockman looks at.

Yeah, as per, you totally missed my point

But thanks for your detailed explanation, we now have a firm grasp of the obvious.

 

[unlacedgecko]

You obviously don't go to many Mule ewe-lamb sales. If a pen of lambs don't have descent size and shape, good heads regardless of colour, and good skins and a good reputation, they won't command much attention regardless of face markings.

But if two pens of lambs are identical in every other way, those with bonny heads will almost always sell better. And why not. The head is the most important part of any sheep or beef animal - it's the first thing any decent stockman looks at.

I must be a sh!t stockman