What should I vaccinate sheep for.

Ceri

Member
That all depends on what stage of pregnancy the ewes get infected.
Ah yeh I guess they got it late into gestation.....? Am I right in thinking if they get infected with toxo in very very late gestation it doesn't affect the fetus...?
 

Nithsdale

Member
Livestock Farmer
Ah yeh I guess they got it late into gestation.....? Am I right in thinking if they get infected with toxo in very very late gestation it doesn't affect the fetus...?

Typical in twins and triplets - 1 good healthy lamb up and going. The 2nd (or 3rd) will look fully formed and ready to go... but will be born dead or die soon after birth with nothing helping them
 

Yale

Member
Livestock Farmer
Mate's ewes suddenly started casting fresh weakly & dead lambs 12 days before his due date ended up having 30/40 ewes do it..... Turned out it was toxo, not really the usual toxo presentation of mummified lambs....
I’ve never really considered Toxo until last year. We very rarely feed hay to in lamb ewes,as in more likely never so I assumed it couldn’t be an issue.

After blood testing 6 ewes which aborted last year in a mini storm they all came back as Toxo.

Interestingly someone suggested keeping sheep near houses/village or town and the risk of the domestic cats spreading it.

Being around a village I think this is a factor which may come into play.

This year after Toxo vaccinating everything to the ram the lambs are stronger,a lot less weak lambs with maybe half a dozen abortions.

I was talking to a retired vet who lives locally and he suggested that ewes can be blood tested not just immediately after aborting so I’m thinking of selecting a few ewes from the barren/aborted group where we throw to be culled and take them to be tested after lambing.

I may have repeated bits however for me an extended testing window may be useful to find out if anything is grumbling in the background.
 
I’ve never really considered Toxo until last year. We very rarely feed hay to in lamb ewes,as in more likely never so I assumed it couldn’t be an issue.

After blood testing 6 ewes which aborted last year in a mini storm they all came back as Toxo.

Interestingly someone suggested keeping sheep near houses/village or town and the risk of the domestic cats spreading it.

Being around a village I think this is a factor which may come into play.

This year after Toxo vaccinating everything to the ram the lambs are stronger,a lot less weak lambs with maybe half a dozen abortions.

I was talking to a retired vet who lives locally and he suggested that ewes can be blood tested not just immediately after aborting so I’m thinking of selecting a few ewes from the barren/aborted group where we throw to be culled and take them to be tested after lambing.

I may have repeated bits however for me an extended testing window may be useful to find out if anything is grumbling in the background.
You should be able to get free blood testing through Farming Connect and just need to pay the vet fee for sampling.
 

neilo

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Montgomeryshire
You should be able to get free blood testing through Farming Connect and just need to pay the vet fee for sampling.

Vet fee is included on the FC scheme, up to £250 iirc.

Vaccine company usually offers free testing (you pay vet) for Enzo & Toxo, obviously in the hope of increased vaccine sales.
 

Becs

Member
Location
Wiltshire
Nothing constructive to add but just wanted to add my support - you’re going through the most hellish time. Anyone who gets any sort of pleasure from reading about your situation is the sickest sort of person so not worth a second’s thought. I really hope that things improve for you soon.
 

exmoor dave

Member
Location
exmoor, uk
I’ve never really considered Toxo until last year. We very rarely feed hay to in lamb ewes,as in more likely never so I assumed it couldn’t be an issue.

After blood testing 6 ewes which aborted last year in a mini storm they all came back as Toxo.

Interestingly someone suggested keeping sheep near houses/village or town and the risk of the domestic cats spreading it.

Being around a village I think this is a factor which may come into play.

This year after Toxo vaccinating everything to the ram the lambs are stronger,a lot less weak lambs with maybe half a dozen abortions.

I was talking to a retired vet who lives locally and he suggested that ewes can be blood tested not just immediately after aborting so I’m thinking of selecting a few ewes from the barren/aborted group where we throw to be culled and take them to be tested after lambing.

I may have repeated bits however for me an extended testing window may be useful to find out if anything is grumbling in the background.
You should be able to get free blood testing through Farming Connect and just need to pay the vet fee for sampling.


You can get testing done for free for toxo and enzo, I think via MSD, you still need to pay for your vets to take the bloods and post

We did it this year due to a high rate of empty shearlings, already jab for toxo so just used the scheme for enzo.

The same lab can do all the other tests too, so we made extra use of the blood samples and tested additionally for MV, border (I was convinced border was the problem!) and johnes...... all clear.

Also tested trace elements to see the boluses were doing their job.... they were.

Obvs had to pay for the additional tests.


Only trouble..... we're non the wiser as to why for 2yrs running we have so many empty shearlings 🤨
 

Highland Mule

Member
Livestock Farmer
You can get testing done for free for toxo and enzo, I think via MSD, you still need to pay for your vets to take the bloods and post

MSD vets can be very useful for a chat whatever - I had good advice a few years ago when I lost 10%+ of mine from tick born fever. Nothing they could do, but were happy to check through vaccine regime etc. and would have gone further if a PM didn’t confirm the problem (FYI we now apply Spotonor at one day old, before turnout).

As above, don’t think any on here will be enjoying your pain @CopperBeech - we all wish you the best and hopefully many pain free lambings to come.
 

beardface

Member
Location
East Yorkshire
Some very wise words again. One of the big issues is, that end of every month, my rent is due, both on my house, and the ground I run the sheep. So it may be out of my hands whether I carry on or not. But fingers crossed!

As I put in earlier post, speak to your bank manager. I'd say once the vet students arrive and you've got a spare bit of time because of it. If your chosen branch has an ag team they will have a wealth of experience and knowledge to try and help you through this.

I'd also contact RABI and see what support they may offer.

And more importantly I'd get your good lady to book a weekend away at the end of it all to clear your head. Preferably somewhere without sheep!
 
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Think it’s getting worse. Vet out tomorrow to try to see if anything else is in the mix but still reckons it’s just bad toxo. Cracking lambs being born, sat up being licked off, get up, and dead by next check. Got to bring everything in and tube it and mess about. Below are two lambs today which of which I saw both born and on their feet being licked and when I went back to check they’d fed they were dead (one was on way out ice cold mouth etc and died despite tubing and warming etc). Both strong singles off mega maternal young ewes with lots of milk. Just to give you an idea that it’s not premature runts dying. Every time I think that ones ok I can leave them one, I regret it 😞

One positive today - I have three semi pet ewes I like, not really pets, just ones I’ve named that have a story. One has aborted quads and is very sick in the garden, one still ok at the moment and my tiny little north Welsh midget (my equivalent to gators Houdini) has had two lovely ewe lambs (brown necks despite being exlana cross 😂 ), which I’ve brought in just to make sure they are ok.
BCC35525-9A80-4AB9-883F-7207DC516199.jpeg
65B07333-C72F-41A2-B2BF-765B05DD8770.jpeg
56343E57-3DDD-4788-8178-8626E4E388B9.jpeg
 

Becs

Member
Location
Wiltshire
God, that sounds torturous - I hope the vet can come up with some more positive news going forwards. Keeping my fingers crossed that your little ewe’s lambs go on strongly. A few special sheep that get under our skins bring heart to a farm, I think, and sometimes small victories when everything else is going tits-up help to keep a glimmer of hope. This won’t go on forever (although it must feel like it now) - every day is a day nearer the end of this horrible journey that you’re on at the moment. Rooting for you.
 
Thank you. I really had hoped it would get better at our due date. But it’s just meant more lambs coming out and more lambs dying. At this rate I don’t think I will end up with half my lamb crop. Had a count up today and we are down something like 200-250 ewes now. And I know anything born after I checked this eve or night or early hours, will be dead by time I get there. I feel like an under taker not a shepherd. Got two vet students here today and it’s just grim for them, I’ve left them with my Mrs to do owt lambs etc. I am currently sat in my truck with my two collies, on top of a hill in the dark. I don’t even want to go home. Don’t want to go do it again tomorrow but I have to. Feels like if I save anything it’s a success. But all day I feel like a failure, twice today I looked at lambs and thought deffo they are good lambs and be fine, those are the two lambs dead in photos above. Got a barn full of Empty ewes, nothing to foster on and got to bring in etc as next issue with them is mastitis, they are so milky they are now getting sore. Just want it to end and get as far away from the farm as I can for a bit.
 

Becs

Member
Location
Wiltshire
I think you’re well entitled to be feeling the way you do but you can only do your best, which you are doing. It’s a crappy situation for sure but today’s another day of it over. I should get in and get warm and rested now, you can’t change things tonight and you need to keep enough in reserve for tomorrow. I hope tomorrow is a better day Or if not, then the day after! It will get better at some point whatever.
 

exmoor dave

Member
Location
exmoor, uk
Think it’s getting worse. Vet out tomorrow to try to see if anything else is in the mix but still reckons it’s just bad toxo. Cracking lambs being born, sat up being licked off, get up, and dead by next check. Got to bring everything in and tube it and mess about. Below are two lambs today which of which I saw both born and on their feet being licked and when I went back to check they’d fed they were dead (one was on way out ice cold mouth etc and died despite tubing and warming etc). Both strong singles off mega maternal young ewes with lots of milk. Just to give you an idea that it’s not premature runts dying. Every time I think that ones ok I can leave them one, I regret it 😞

One positive today - I have three semi pet ewes I like, not really pets, just ones I’ve named that have a story. One has aborted quads and is very sick in the garden, one still ok at the moment and my tiny little north Welsh midget (my equivalent to gators Houdini) has had two lovely ewe lambs (brown necks despite being exlana cross 😂 ), which I’ve brought in just to make sure they are ok.
View attachment 952585View attachment 952586View attachment 952588


Mate, this is just horrendous 😥

Not had anything on this scale before, but i did have one lambing where there were tons of explosive prolapses. Never seen anything like it before, lost loads of ewes, so know the feeling of just absolutely dreading the morning rounds.

How wide have you tested?
Enzo and/ or toxo confirmed?
Anything else tested/ ruled out?

Even for enzo it seems nuts to be losing full term lambs 😔
 

aangus

Member
Location
cumbria
Thank you. I really had hoped it would get better at our due date. But it’s just meant more lambs coming out and more lambs dying. At this rate I don’t think I will end up with half my lamb crop. Had a count up today and we are down something like 200-250 ewes now. And I know anything born after I checked this eve or night or early hours, will be dead by time I get there. I feel like an under taker not a shepherd. Got two vet students here today and it’s just grim for them, I’ve left them with my Mrs to do owt lambs etc. I am currently sat in my truck with my two collies, on top of a hill in the dark. I don’t even want to go home. Don’t want to go do it again tomorrow but I have to. Feels like if I save anything it’s a success. But all day I feel like a failure, twice today I looked at lambs and thought deffo they are good lambs and be fine, those are the two lambs dead in photos above. Got a barn full of Empty ewes, nothing to foster on and got to bring in etc as next issue with them is mastitis, they are so milky they are now getting sore. Just want it to end and get as far away from the farm as I can for a bit.
So so sorry to hear this
 
Mate, this is just horrendous 😥

Not had anything on this scale before, but i did have one lambing where there were tons of explosive prolapses. Never seen anything like it before, lost loads of ewes, so know the feeling of just absolutely dreading the morning rounds.

How wide have you tested?
Enzo and/ or toxo confirmed?
Anything else tested/ ruled out?

Even for enzo it seems nuts to be losing full term lambs 😔

Tested heavily for everything routinely, tested this lot again and only come up with enzo. Vet back out tomorrow to take bloods widely, more placenta samples, dead lambs etc. He’s going to come around my lambing beat with me, he’s a very good vet and a good guy so I have a lot of faith in him.

And yes mate I can’t get my head round it, both those lambs picked up. Strong lambs, warm, fresh born, mum licking off, could see no reason at all why wouldn’t be up and sucked a f happy next check. Two hours or so later one stone dead and one down, cold mouth typical hypothermic lamb. Tubed and heated and started getting better then just died.

Lambed a pair earlier, got both out ok, both heart beating, both breathing, did usual stuff cleared faces etc etc, watched as both just slowed and slowed breathing and died.

The sound in the lambing fields is not nice at all.
 

Becs

Member
Location
Wiltshire
Have you got anyone who can do the rounds for you, even just for a day? I had one night this past lambing where I just couldn’t think straight (was doing days and nights on my own -stupid) and my husband, despite my refusing help, called in someone to do the night shift. I didn’t appreciate at the time how knackered and hopeless I was feeling. It was a lifesaver. Can you get yourself a break, even just for half a day?
 
Have you got anyone who can do the rounds for you, even just for a day? I had one night this past lambing where I just couldn’t think straight (was doing days and nights on my own -stupid) and my husband, despite my refusing help, called in someone to do the night shift. I didn’t appreciate at the time how knackered and hopeless I was feeling. It was a lifesaver. Can you get yourself a break, even just for half a day?

Got a lad that works for me and a few mates but mostly lambing their own sheep. To be fair they are my sheep and I don’t overly trust anyone else to go round my sheep at lambing, (apart from one member on here, who probably knows who he is) , they are my girls and I know I don’t miss much. We are also right at the beginning, three more weeks at least of this. And I don’t know if I would subject anyone else to this sh*t. But your words are wise. My Mrs has been a star. But I can see how badly she wants to make it ok but can’t. It is what it is. Someone said above that this would change me and things would never be the same. I didn’t know what they meant then, but I’m learning it now.
 

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