What size steel please

[Neddy flanders]

existing store has 305x175 (I think) UB uprights 5.5m high with 6m bays.
If I want to pu a 6m lean to, with grain walling to 3m on outside, what size uprights and rafters would you use?

 

[dannewhouse]

farmbuildings./ foursquare use a 178x102x19 for a 30ft wide building, 12ft to eaves though
my building is 60ft wide 16ft eaves with 2m panels on 254x146x31
id probably go for a 203x133x25
steel is a vary small cost of a building so going up a section size/weight wont put more than around 2% on the job.
I would advise you to go wider than 6m and make it a proper peak you will end up with a much better shed even if you cant afford to put many bays on it to start with. alternatively extend the length of the existing shed(this makes a better job) but I don't know your situation/scinario

 

[RWG Contracts]

farmbuildings./ foursquare use a 178x102x19 for a 30ft wide building, 12ft to eaves though
my building is 60ft wide 16ft eaves with 2m panels on 254x146x31
id probably go for a 203x133x25
steel is a vary small cost of a building so going up a section size/weight wont put more than around 2% on the job.
I would advise you to go wider than 6m and make it a proper peak you will end up with a much better shed even if you cant afford to put many bays on it to start with. alternatively extend the length of the existing shed(this makes a better job) but I don't know your situation/scinario

a 60' span on 254x146x31??

we do 50' span on 305x165x40

existing store has 305x175 (I think) UB uprights 5.5m high with 6m bays.
If I want to pu a 6m lean to, with grain walling to 3m on outside, what size uprights and rafters would you use?

Is the pillar taking a load from grain?

 

[dannewhouse]

that foursquare / farmbuildings.com do a 50ft on 203*133*25 admittedly only 12ft
I do think steel is cheap so it doesn't put the price up much

 

[RWG Contracts]

that foursquare / farmbuildings.com do a 50ft on 203*133*25 admittedly only 12ft
I do think steel is cheap so it doesn't put the price up much

That's under spec'd. I'd never put a 50' wide shed up on an 8" pillar? That's tiny

 

[RWG Contracts]

that foursquare / farmbuildings.com do a 50ft on 203*133*25 admittedly only 12ft
I do think steel is cheap so it doesn't put the price up much

A 40 building 14' to the eves is on 254x146x31 pillars. 50' is on 305x165x40

 

[bigw]

That's under spec'd. I'd never put a 50' wide shed up on an 8" pillar? That's tiny

Why do some firms put lighter steel than others? I would have thought everyone would have followed the same standards. Do you make your own buildings @RWG Contracts ?

 

[Andrew1983]

Why do some firms put lighter steel than others? I would have thought everyone would have followed the same standards.

Thinking same myself, I got 3 quotes, 3 different specs of steel. I have asked the best price one to re quote with same spec steel as top spec quote. Middle spec was actually the dearest price.

 

[RWG Contracts]

Why do some firms put lighter steel than others? I would have thought everyone would have followed the same standards.

Because the CEmarking hasn't done the steel frame building trade any favours. It's set a minimum standard for firms to work and to be quite frank it bugs the hell out of me.

How can a 50' wide shed on 8" pillars be considered right? It would look tiny? On a 12' pillar it's bound to be a better job no?

I loose loads of work to firms such as this "four square" using steel sizes that aren't right because I'm not willing to compromise quality.

 

[RWG Contracts]

Thinking same myself, I got 3 quotes, 3 different specs of steel. I have asked the best price one to re quote with same spec steel as top spec quote. Middle spec was actually the dearest price.

What size shed?

 

[bigw]

Thinking same myself, I got 3 quotes, 3 different specs of steel. I have asked the best price one to re quote with same spec steel as top spec quote. Middle spec was actually the dearest price.

We have had a few buildings from wareings which are well made but the steel is light compared to others. I can PM you a firm in Ayrshire which seem to have good spec'd buildings at a very competitive price if you want. Are you still thinking of putting up a shed for you cattle?

 

[RWG Contracts]

We have had a few buildings from wareings which are well made but the steel is light compared to others. I can PM you a firm in Ayrshire which seem to have good spec'd buildings at a very competitive price if you want. Are you still thinking of putting up a shed for you cattle?

That's surprised me

 

[frustratedfarmer]

My two pence worth.

Don't skimp on steel, as a % of the total cost it's not much but arguably quite an important part of the buildings integrity!?

Building's uses change over their life span, do it right first time.

@RWG Contracts I hope you don't loose enough work for you to consider dropping your standards!

 

[RWG Contracts]

Why do some firms put lighter steel than others? I would have thought everyone would have followed the same standards. Do you make your own buildings @RWG Contracts ?

No I buy them in off for a I trust.

One of the firms is Wareibgs and I've always considered there buildings to be the best, certainly the easiest to put together and some things they do are sometimes a bit over engineered so I'm surprised that you say they're light

 

[dannewhouse]

this ce marking means the buildings have to have calculations done to the eurocode not british standards.
the values used for strengths of beams are the lowest 10% ie they test 100 beams and use the value which only 10 failed at, if they used the average 50% would fail.
when calculating the loading on sheds they use the formula 1.5Gk + 1.35Qk where Gk is the temporary forces (which can be removed) such as wind grain walling and pressure etc Qk is the fixed loads which are permanent such as purlins/roof sheets/weight of steel
so the minimum should actually be well over engineered. this is a very crude simple description of the calculations done on a portal frame
in a standard floor beam the limiting factor is deflection as it wouldn't look/ feel safe if there was excessive bend but it could be a long long way from failing (collapse)

 

[RWG Contracts]

My two pence worth.

Don't skimp on steel, as a % of the total cost it's not much but arguably quite an important part of the buildings integrity!?

Building's uses change over their life span, do it right first time.

@RWG Contracts I hope you don't loose enough work for you to consider dropping your standards!

I'm going to put it out there now that I will never Compromise quality to win a job

 

[frustratedfarmer]

this ce marking means the buildings have to have calculations done to the eurocode not british standards.
the values used for strengths of beams are the lowest 10% ie they test 100 beams and use the value which only 10 failed at, if they used the average 50% would fail.
when calculating the loading on sheds they use the formula 1.5Gk + 1.35Qk where Gk is the temporary forces (which can be removed) such as wind grain walling and pressure etc Qk is the fixed loads which are permanent such as purlins/roof sheets/weight of steel
so the minimum should actually be well over engineered. this is a very crude simple description of the calculations done on a portal frame
in a standard floor beam the limiting factor is deflection as it wouldn't look/ feel safe if there was excessive bend but it could be a long long way from failing (collapse)

Can you translate into my language please?!

The regs have changed and so the calculations needed are different.

In real terms, if you build two sheds next to each other, one with old calcs and then one with new and you get an alimoghty winter with 3 foot of snow. Then a heavy gale and I manage to shoot a goose and drop on each roof from great heights, which is most likely to give!?

 

[RWG Contracts]

Can you translate into my language please?!

The regs have changed and so the calculations needed are different.

In real terms, if you build two sheds next to each other, one with old calcs and then one with new and you get an alimoghty winter with 3 foot of snow. Then a heavy gale and I manage to shoot a goose and drop on each roof from great heights, which is most likely to give!?

Neither if they both mine

 

[RWG Contracts]

@dannewhouse you sure your right about four square doing a 50' span on 203x133 pillars?

 

[Andrew1983]

What size shed?

160x50x20 class 2