What type of heater heats electric cars?

[clbarclay]

what if you want to warm a red tractor?

Swan Vesta

 

[chickens and wheat]

I wish, the bonfire of the vanities

 

[shumungus]

I would think they also would have battery heaters to actually heat the batteries up, I know some of the electric powered gliders have them as they perform best at a given temp and capacity is diminished at lower temps. The one chap I know who has one told me his machine has a modem in it and they can see exactly what is happening in real time back at the factory (Switzerland) and even change parameters etc of the power system (not during flight though) and also spot any issues with defective cells or overheating cells etc. Clever stuff but a bit big brother

What is an electric powered glider? I thought the idea of a glider was it glided and didn't need power?

 

[dave mountain]

Good that the range reduction doesn't apply to petrol or diesel cars. Oh wait...

tbf i think its a fair comment when some electric cars claiming 300 mile range but can only do 100 under bad conditions, even less if you were towing. youd be hard pushed to find a diesel that cant do 200 miles even towing heavy loads around hills.

 

[shumungus]

tbf i think its a fair comment when some electric cars claiming 300 mile range but can only do 100 under bad conditions, even less if you were towing. youd be hard pushed to find a diesel that cant do 200 miles even towing heavy loads around hills.

True, but you can fully refuel a diesel vehicle in 5 minutes.

 

[MrNoo]

What is an electric powered glider? I thought the idea of a glider was it glided and didn't need power?

They do an electric self launch glider, Antaries I believe it’s called, quite a hot ship, so the motor pops out the fuselage just behind the wing on a pylon. Use it to take off and once up it gets put away.
A lot have self sustainers, 2stroke petrol, that can get you back home if needed, save landing in a field 100’s of miles away from base.
A lot of these are going elec sustainers too as the power is instant, a 2stroke needs a windmill start so height loss would be 250-500ft assuming that it starts (they don’t always!!)
But on the whole they operate as gliders and using any motor after the task is started pretty much makes your flight null and void regarding cross country points or any competition flight.

 

[Bald Rick]

Hot air from the EV converts

 

[Rs chunk]

are you thinking what happens when the battery is flat and your stuck in a snow drift....

No body seems to have a answer for this, certainly won’t be any heat recovery from anywhere when you stuck in one place for so many hours

 

[Timbo]

As above ,I ask as no water getting heated from engine block.

We'll use the Tesla as an example to answer your question, although other EV's deviate alittle, but the latest tesla (the Plaid) is about as efficient as it gets now..

All of them have a regular Lead acid type 12v battery to intially power up the electronics when the car is asleep, and do things like wipers, lights, windows etc when the car is awake . It is charged via the inverter from the main battery pack.
Earlier generations used to use a PTC 3 phase electrical heater to warm the cabin powered via the inverter from the battery pack, as well as a 3phase motor driven air con pump. The Plaid generation now uses a complex heatpump system, and there is a 9 way multi diverter valve for the glycol system , where cooling the motor(s), inverters, charger and battery pack (and warming it under some conditions) heating and cooling of all the parts as necessary.

So the cabin can be heated from surplus heat from the charger or motors, and it can generate heat from the air if more is needed. Likewise surplus heat can be dumped into the air or stored in the battery for later which has a big thermal mass. Similarly the cabin can be heated and cooled via the heatpump. They've got it very very efficient now, such the computers are able to predict cooling and heating requirements from ambient temperatures and historical driving style & distances, so almost no electric is wasted moving heat around that's not really needed.

 

[Farfrae]

And why would you have aircon and heated seat on at the same time? Or radio and CD player for that matter?

I often put the aircon on with the heating to get rid of condensation on a cold screen.

 

[dave mountain]

We'll use the Tesla as an example to answer your question, although other EV's deviate alittle, but the latest tesla (the Plaid) is about as efficient as it gets now..

All of them have a regular Lead acid type 12v battery to intially power up the electronics when the car is asleep, and do things like wipers, lights, windows etc when the car is awake . It is charged via the inverter from the main battery pack.
Earlier generations used to use a PTC 3 phase electrical heater to warm the cabin powered via the inverter from the battery pack, as well as a 3phase motor driven air con pump. The Plaid generation now uses a complex heatpump system, and there is a 9 way multi diverter valve for the glycol system , where cooling the motor(s), inverters, charger and battery pack (and warming it under some conditions) heating and cooling of all the parts as necessary.

So the cabin can be heated from surplus heat from the charger or motors, and it can generate heat from the air if more is needed. Likewise surplus heat can be dumped into the air or stored in the battery for later which has a big thermal mass. Similarly the cabin can be heated and cooled via the heatpump. They've got it very very efficient now, such the computers are able to predict cooling and heating requirements from ambient temperatures and historical driving style & distances, so almost no electric is wasted moving heat around that's not really needed.

I do really like that concept, basically a multi source central heating system, but ive got doubts about long term relaibility of these parts of the car. In fact i would be more worried about the long term reliability of this system and all the other internal systems than i would be about any of the drivetrain. I am sure that one day they will get there though, probably when the Japs start making them in a big way.

 

[Lakesdigger]

We'll use the Tesla as an example to answer your question, although other EV's deviate alittle, but the latest tesla (the Plaid) is about as efficient as it gets now..

All of them have a regular Lead acid type 12v battery to intially power up the electronics when the car is asleep, and do things like wipers, lights, windows etc when the car is awake . It is charged via the inverter from the main battery pack.
Earlier generations used to use a PTC 3 phase electrical heater to warm the cabin powered via the inverter from the battery pack, as well as a 3phase motor driven air con pump. The Plaid generation now uses a complex heatpump system, and there is a 9 way multi diverter valve for the glycol system , where cooling the motor(s), inverters, charger and battery pack (and warming it under some conditions) heating and cooling of all the parts as necessary.

So the cabin can be heated from surplus heat from the charger or motors, and it can generate heat from the air if more is needed. Likewise surplus heat can be dumped into the air or stored in the battery for later which has a big thermal mass. Similarly the cabin can be heated and cooled via the heatpump. They've got it very very efficient now, such the computers are able to predict cooling and heating requirements from ambient temperatures and historical driving style & distances, so almost no electric is wasted moving heat around that's not really needed.

Whilst all that sounds amazing on paper/as a sales pitch its sounds more complex than it is in some ways. It still doesn't get round the fact that being warm in the cabin is costing you range however they dress it up.

 

[Timbo]

Of course, b

Whilst all that sounds amazing on paper/as a sales pitch its sounds more complex than it is in some ways. It still doesn't get round the fact that being warm in the cabin is costing you range however they dress it up.

Of course, but the heatpump tech uses vastly less power to do so.

 

[Lakesdigger]

Of course, b

Of course, but the heatpump tech uses vastly less power to do so.

Works both ways mind. When is its cold the system will actually use power to heat the motor battery etc circuit to get it into the ideal working temp range. As i say a lot of it is marketing blurb telling people about a system which they've used for a while without people realising but now using it as a selling point.

 

[Timbo]

Works both ways mind. When is its cold the system will actually use power to heat the motor battery etc circuit to get it into the ideal working temp range. As i say a lot of it is marketing blurb telling people about a system which they've used for a while without people realising but now using it as a selling point.

It uses power to move the heat yes, but not to create it.

 

[ollie989898]

For all this pishing around cooling and heating the interior the battery powered car will win simply because it doesn't dump over 50% of it's battery directly into the atmosphere via the exhaust.

Battery powered car can defrost itself on your drive whilst still attached to the mains supply rather than sat with an engine idling for 5 minutes burning fuel for no real reason.

Battery tech may not ever fully replace 4x4s and towing etc but you will have HVO for that use so you can keep your diesel engines.

 

[Lakesdigger]

It uses power to move the heat yes, but not to create it.

Hmmmm. It's not my area of expertise I'll admit but i bet if you get in you're leccy car to drive down the road at minus 10 it wants it's system up to optimum temp faster than waiting for heat off the motors.

 

[yellow belly]

The electric car plugged in over night will be pre warmed from the mains if the driver programmes it in advance
and be fully charged

the petrol car can be filled up the day before when passing a petrol station and it is often left idling to defrost by disorganised drivers who then need to find an open fuel station
in rural areas the fuel station can be more than 20 miles away the electric cars power socket in the garage


a Tesla does have extra battery capacity that Tesla switch on when you phone them if you are not organised enough to charge it up

 

[Timbo]

a Tesla does have extra battery capacity that Tesla switch on when you phone them if you are not organised enough to charge it up

True, there is a reserve that can be enabled by tesla if the owner drives it til it stops to hopefully enable you to make it to a charger ( its around 15 miles at 30mph ish )

 

[Pilatus]

Hmmmm. It's not my area of expertise I'll admit but i bet if you get in you're leccy car to drive down the road at minus 10 it wants it's system up to optimum temp faster than waiting for heat off the motors.

If any Scandinavian or Canadian TFF members have electric cars it would be great to hear how the electric cars perform at -20 and below.