What Will Be The Turning Point?

[Al R]

Every spare acre still fully utilised in this area too. Can't think of any farms falling into a state of disrepair or rewilding.

It’s mainly the goodlifers, trusts, societies and alternative folk that have royally made a mess of the places. Very much a case of stop trying to save the world and concentrate on saving your own patch first….

 

[Yale]

Every spare acre still fully utilised in this area too. Can't think of any farms falling into a state of disrepair or rewilding.

There are a lot more places around us who either dog and stick farm or are tarmac farmed.

 

[neilo]

All meaningful change is demand driven. If you all stopped shopping at supermarkets and instead shopped at farmers markets, you would at least be doing your bit to, as the the thread title puts it, stimulate the turning point. Sorry I forgot, you all think that farmers markets are a rip off, to be smirked at, and the folks who are actually trying trying to find the turning point, rather than just talking about it, are interfering lentil knitters who should feck off and leave food production to the experts.
Muppets. Hypocritical muppets the lot of you.

Oh my, the Greens are revolting…

You are right of course. Meaningful change, in a capitalist society, is indeed driven by demand. Consumer demand (& choice) over the last 40 years is what gave the supermarkets their dominant position.
The only way to change that is to legislate against that consumer choice, which is going to make any government unpopular with the voters.

Do you really think that’s going to happen? I would suggest the lack of votes for candidates from your Party would suggest little appetite for such draconian legislation.

 

[Agrivator]

All meaningful change is demand driven. If you all stopped shopping at supermarkets and instead shopped at farmers markets, you would at least be doing your bit to, as the the thread title puts it, stimulate the turning point. Sorry I forgot, you all think that farmers markets are a rip off, to be smirked at, and the folks who are actually trying trying to find the turning point, rather than just talking about it, are interfering lentil knitters who should feck off and leave food production to the experts.
Muppets. Hypocritical muppets the lot of you.

From what I've seen of farmers' markets, two folk take a van and produce, and spend the whole day going there and setting up and waiting for customers, and seem pleased when the day's takings get to about £600.

It's probably the most inefficient form of producer/retailing.

 

[warksfarmer]

I live in the affluent South East and farm in what is considered to be a very picturesque area and has a designation of an AONB.

There are two River valleys that have changed very little in terms of development but agriculturally the upper parts of the valleys are dying.
I went for a walk this evening being a beautiful sunny evening and walked some miles along what is the largest of the valleys and was shocked as to what has happened to what were very productive farms.

In this valley there used to be over 20 different farmers who lived on the farms and were mostly mixed livestock and arable with a couple of fruit farms. Now on the same land only 5 still live on the farms they run. The rest have sold off all the properties and many of the buildings have been converted.
The lower land of several hundred acres which is good grade 2 arable land is contract farmed and no one lives there.
Then there is a block of mostly sheep run by one family that have around 3,000 ewes and do live in the valley.
There is another block of 300 acres that has summer grazed cattle and environmental scheme by an absentee owner.
Then an organic beef and sheep farm which is farmed reasonably well and the owner and his son do live on the farm but is very undergrazed.
Then there is a sizeable fruit farm which is run entirely by East Europeans and the owner lives miles away.
After this there were a number of small farms with nice old houses, all sold off to people who bought them for the attractive landscape that was a patchwork of fields and managed woodland. Pockets of the land are grazed but most is now derelict or a few horses. Probably an area of between 500 and a thousand acres some of which is in environmental schemes but mostly ungrazed and rushes and scrub. This was all good grade 3 land that used to have sheep and cattle on it.

The ditches, gates and fences are all falling into disrepair and it would be difficult for this land to be turned around without significant amounts of money being spent. There are no livestock buildings left and no handling facilities.
I asked myself what would or could be the turning point to put this land back into productive farmland? Will it take another war? Or this time will it just revert to scrub and woodland and everyone be happy that this is "rewilding" whatever that means.

The problem is that farmers methods are being questioned. Who says what we do is right? Just because it’s always looked tidy historically doesn’t means it’s the best for the environment.
Remember before humans existed and dinosaurs were around wilded landscapes supposedly created the world before the ice age appeared.

 

[warksfarmer]

All meaningful change is demand driven. If you all stopped shopping at supermarkets and instead shopped at farmers markets, you would at least be doing your bit to, as the the thread title puts it, stimulate the turning point. Sorry I forgot, you all think that farmers markets are a rip off, to be smirked at, and the folks who are actually trying trying to find the turning point, rather than just talking about it, are interfering lentil knitters who should feck off and leave food production to the experts.
Muppets. Hypocritical muppets the lot of you.

Farmers markets around here are s**t. We don’t all live in idillic surroundings and many of us Farm mixed into urban sprawl or within spitting distance of it which means people, lots and lots of people, who just want the cheapest and easiest accessed food possible which means supermarkets not farm markets.
In some areas there is zero call for farmers markets.

 

[DrWazzock]

Farming still strong around here , must be more if an arable isue

Every spare acre still fully utilised in this area too. Can't think of any farms falling into a state of disrepair or rewilding.

It’s a south and east thing. Slowly turning into Hong Kong.
Whenever we travel north or west we always feel like we have gone back 50 years to a friendlier more farming orientated culture.

 

[DrWazzock]

I was suggesting a complete cessation of farming. All the parts would be let out to leisure businesses.

I've been a bit distracted what with children starting school but in reality I've been making jobs for myself. Could easily sub even more out and just go drive a digger. Little tractor to "keep it tidy".

260ac of my own. 50ac stewardship. 60ac let grass. Contractor already cuts it and drills it. To my limit on organic manures so can't keep any beasts to earn (loose) time and money. Grain to coop. What do I really, actually add?

I think ultimately it comes down to what you actually enjoy doing, as long as it’s wiping it’s face financially and keeping you in groceries.
Some people like driving a telephone and it’s the only farming implement they possess. Some I’m sure make more money than I do and get a buzz from managing contractors and resources efficiently. In some ways it’s a canny way forward.
But here we are. My brother likes ploughing. So that’s it now, he ploughs it all in the autumn then goes off to his 6 months winter job. Simple system. We are not faffing with cover crops or running direct drills in concrete that can turn to lard over night. Myself, I’ll look after the crops, harvest some beet, maybe refurb another tractor. I could run the place from a telephone. There are plenty of people falling over themselves to do it, cutting one another’s throats. But I personally enjoy doing the work myself.
I’m not convinced there is real money in leisure either. The hotel and restaurant trade has historically been least return of any sector and I think that feeds through the leisure sector generally. It only looks rosy as a farm diversification until the grant runs out. Then it looks like hard work for menial jobs and low pay.
Farming is alright. I have tried a “proper job”. It got incredibly tiresome.
I think really the biggest loss we face as a country with the demise of small working farms is the loss of a balanced satisfying way of life. And we will only realise what we have lost when we have lost it. So I’m carrying on but yes I have surrendered my grain storage to the coop as I can only do so much at times of peak workload and my store just won’t meet modem standards.

 

[Yale]

Oh my, the Greens are revolting…

You are right of course. Meaningful change, in a capitalist society, is indeed driven by demand. Consumer demand (& choice) over the last 40 years is what gave the supermarkets their dominant position.
The only way to change that is to legislate against that consumer choice, which is going to make any government unpopular with the voters.

Do you really think that’s going to happen? I would suggest the lack of votes for candidates from your Party would suggest little appetite for such draconian legislation.

OK,the banks were pretty well unregulated with regard to resilience before 2008,after the issues they were required to build in resilience to meet government regulation.

Maybe this is the answer,supermarkets should have set levels of resilience for their production chain,deliveries to stores and even on line delivery capability.

This could also apply to oil companies and delivery trucks.

At the end of the day government is all of our business as it is ‘us’ so perhaps ‘we’ as a nation need to make sure our biggest and also wealthiest free market businesses can deliver to the population from whom they gain their wealth.

Sounds a bit socialist however sometimes the rampant market economy has to be reigned in by ‘us’.

 

[serf]

Soon as I see "Farmers Markets" mentioned can't help but think of this

 

[delilah]

Oh my, the Greens are revolting…

You are right of course. Meaningful change, in a capitalist society, is indeed driven by demand. Consumer demand (& choice) over the last 40 years is what gave the supermarkets their dominant position.
The only way to change that is to legislate against that consumer choice, which is going to make any government unpopular with the voters.

Do you really think that’s going to happen? I would suggest the lack of votes for candidates from your Party would suggest little appetite for such draconian legislation.

I decided a long time ago that you are being deliberately obtuse on this issue. You are plenty intelligent enough to understand that the issue of market share can be addressed without the public having to change their habits in any way.

The bigger point, my answer to the question asked in the OP, is that we are where we are precisely because of the choices made by the generation of farmers doing all the whingeing. No-one put a gun to your heads and made you sell all the redundant buildings for housing. You could have turned them into employment creating work spaces for locals, or even, heaven forbid, rented a building and some ground to a young farmer and mentored them.

You have all created the industry we have today, by allowing your national bodies to be complicit in handing the industry over to corporate control. Stop bellyaching.

 

[devonbeef]

The problem is that farmers methods are being questioned. Who says what we do is right? Just because it’s always looked tidy historically doesn’t means it’s the best for the environment.
Remember before humans existed and dinosaurs were around wilded landscapes supposedly created the world before the ice age appeared.

I guess the fact few have ever experienced hunger in the western world, says what has been done has not been far of the mark.

 

[Jimdog1]

From what I’ve seen, diversifications are a distraction from the core farming business which then suffers or is “let out” at “caretaker” rents. The farm ends up let on an FBT while the original farmer ends up fully occupied with the “diversification”. I’m quite wary for that reason. Would I want to swap a day drilling for a day looking after a zip wire or a dog walking park/camp site? No. But there again I’m unsociable and not a people person.

Farming couple from the South East have just sold up and moved to my corner of Sleepy North Devon. They were Farming 300 acres arable mostly run by contractors whilst they ran the 5 barn conversions. Got sick to the teeth of dealing with the public so bailed out. It's a funny thing isn't it? I could probably earn more money working half the hour's without the 24/7 hassle that livestock farming brings, but would it give me the same satisfaction? YFC tractor run last week in memory of a local lad who lost his life attracted 140 tractors and if I didn't know the drivers personally I would have known there connection to the lad's family. Keep your livestock- keep your community- keep on farming!

 

[Hindsight]

I decided a long time ago that you are being deliberately obtuse on this issue. You are plenty intelligent enough to understand that the issue of market share can be addressed without the public having to change their habits in any way.

The bigger point, my answer to the question asked in the OP, is that we are where we are precisely because of the choices made by the generation of farmers doing all the whingeing. No-one put a gun to your heads and made you sell all the redundant buildings for housing. You could have turned them into employment creating work spaces for locals, or even, heaven forbid, rented a building and some ground to a young farmer and mentored them.

You have all created the industry we have today, by allowing your national bodies to be complicit in handing the industry over to corporate control. Stop bellyaching.

I follow your posts with interest. Market Share. An agriculture with opportunities for young farmers. Buildings not sold for development. You argue for total state intervention with a 40 year plan. Am I correct or not. As if not then human and business nature coupled with the inevitable pricing of commodities leads Agriculture to where it is today. You 'market share' concept will only work with total state control of retailing and processing. And then of course it will assume your vision is correct - as only your vision is acceptable to you and your 'group' which I presume are those Landworker Alliance folk. Fascinating.

 

[egbert]

All meaningful change is demand driven. If you all stopped shopping at supermarkets and instead shopped at farmers markets, you would at least be doing your bit to, as the the thread title puts it, stimulate the turning point. Sorry I forgot, you all think that farmers markets are a rip off, to be smirked at, and the folks who are actually trying trying to find the turning point, rather than just talking about it, are interfering lentil knitters who should feck off and leave food production to the experts.
Muppets. Hypocritical muppets the lot of you.

take more water with it D

 

[delilah]

I follow your posts with interest. Market Share. An agriculture with opportunities for young farmers. Buildings not sold for development. You argue for total state intervention with a 40 year plan. Am I correct or not. As if not then human and business nature coupled with the inevitable pricing of commodities leads Agriculture to where it is today. You 'market share' concept will only work with total state control of retailing and processing. And then of course it will assume your vision is correct - as only your vision is acceptable to you and your 'group' which I presume are those Landworker Alliance folk. Fascinating.

Not a member of the LWA. Am a member of the NFU. So that lazy stereotype is out of the window .
What I argue for, entails no more state intervention in the food chain than we already have. I can only offer events of the last week, and the last 18 months, as evidence of the truth of that.

 

[delilah]

take more water with it D

Had only had a couple. What, exactly, is the point of a thread where everyone just pats each other on the back for successfully blaming everything on everybody else ?

 

[7610 super q]

Sorry I'm late. I meant to turn up and moan, so someone else could turn up and tell me stop moaning.
Pembrokeshire has turned into Alton Towers. Since lockdown ended the last vestiges of farming have been replaced by the plastic coffins on cars brigade. It is very sad. Very sad indeed.
Supermarket shelves have been empty on and off for 18 months. No one as yet has made the connection between food and farmers. I don't even think WW3 is going to make a difference to numpskulls.

 

[egbert]

Had only had a couple. What, exactly, is the point of a thread where everyone just pats each other on the back for successfully blaming everything on everybody else ?

WTF?
I read Franks post as a lament for what he sees as the erosion of a complex and useful(nay, essential) industry.
The depth of culture that arose over centuries, through necessity being the mother of invention, is stamped across our landscape, but in many areas is steadily evaporating.
Right @Frank-the-Wool ?

I recognise it all too well.
I could drive - in a few miles- to ground where I've previously baled hay, wintered sheep, summered couples or yearling beasts, but which is all now pony paddocks/brambles/christmas trees/ragwort/wimpey homes.

The tides of commerce that drive us are one thing, as mechanisation and cheaper produce have changed our businesses.
The current deliberate drive from the urbanista experts, to rewild land to assuage their guilt ridden angst? That's another thing altogether.

 

[Top Tip.]

Up here in the hills of the north I’m afraid that rewilding is an unstoppable force. Report in the paper yesterday that a local estate has been sold. 3000 acres of heather moor for £7.5 million bought by Sta ndard Life. I can only imagine that this will be to facilitate carbon trading of some description.