What will the no tillers do ?

[Clive]

I bet you a tenner that I could no till without glyphosate and you can keep your drum of roundup. I wouldn't be going organic, if you banned all chemicals I'd struggle.

its not hard to farm zero till without glyphosate, can make money doing so though on rented land and without subs though ?

 

[rob1]

its not hard to farm zero till without glyphosate, can make money doing so though on rented land and without subs though ?

it is if you have blackgrass, unless you use lots of grass breaks and then how do you get rid of the ley ?

 

[Clive]

it is if you have blackgrass, unless you use lots of grass breaks and then how do you get rid of the ley ?

so you use lots of grass breaks (you answered your own question !) - as I say totally physically possible but not economically so

 

[Hampton]

seriously question - why bother Lee ? just rent it for daft money as we can around here ! there comes a point when it really makes no sense and un subsidised heavy tillage farming does not make money on anything but the very best land with no finance or rents to carry

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but I didn't think you and @warksfarmer were the major landowners, are thought the majority of your farming lands were on contract farming agreements?
Surely a landlord is t going to let you sublet it again?

 

[Simon Chiles]

its not hard to farm zero till without glyphosate, can make money doing so though on rented land and without subs though ?

I wouldn't be concerned about subs going, I already farm a fair bit without them anyway and can turn a decent profit. I would be very concerned if I was a tenant farmer at the moment as I think rents are totally unrealistic and unless you have a sympathetic landlord who was willing to take a huge reduction immediately I can foresee a few going to the wall. The irony is that in a few years time the rent will have dropped to a realistic level allowing new farmers and those that have got themselves into a position that can weather storm new opportunities. Personally I think we're in for a few hard years but the future will be better if you can ride it out.

 

[Henarar]

its not hard to farm zero till without glyphosate, can make money doing so though on rented land and without subs though ?

Why do you keep saying about subs when on a thread about subs you said that sub removal wouldn't make much odds to you as rents would drop

 

[Simon Chiles]

There is no such thing as an isolated event like this there will be unintended victims, small contractors who rely on the hay trade would also feel the pinch from a large increase in free grass.

If you've been in the hay trade you'd know that it goes in cycles, every few years lots try to jump on the bandwagon thinking it's a license to print money. Most never last more than a few years as they don't have the benefit of an existing client base and don't have the skill or equipment to make decent quality. If you'd got an established business I can't see that it would be any different to the last 35 years I've been supplying hay.

 

[Simon Chiles]

Any one can notill without glyphosate but the trick is, @Clive points out making money. If you think cover crops will work long term think again, all you will do is shift the weed spectrum in a few years. The profitability will fall out of any crop that helps as we have seen with barley
Individuals may think they can survive but that is only within the present system, take glyphosate out of the equation and is a whole new ball game. Imagine every arable farmer deciding to introduce grass and perhaps some livestock? The whole balance of farming would change and don't forget the major competitors would not be working with their hands behind their backs.

As has been said before it's entirely possible to make a profit without glyphosate provided you aren't paying an unrealistic rent.

 

[shakerator]

france has massive ag lobby.

it aint going


just need a high court ruling on imported produce using banned products vs using them at home. Surely possible given Nfu resources
@Guy Smith

paraquat used on our banannas without PPE!

 

[Steevo]

just need a high court ruling on imported produce using banned products vs using them at home.

You'd think the media could make an impressive storm about it too.

I get these 38 degrees emails all the time claiming how politicians, or companies are doing something sneaky that must be stopped NOW. I can imagine how they'd word such a thing......and yet at the same time could never see them doing it.

 

[Clive]

I wouldn't be concerned about subs going, I already farm a fair bit without them anyway and can turn a decent profit. I would be very concerned if I was a tenant farmer at the moment as I think rents are totally unrealistic and unless you have a sympathetic landlord who was willing to take a huge reduction immediately I can foresee a few going to the wall. The irony is that in a few years time the rent will have dropped to a realistic level allowing new farmers and those that have got themselves into a position that can weather storm new opportunities. Personally I think we're in for a few hard years but the future will be better if you can ride it out.

with no sub and the additional fixed costs or lack of cash crop every year on every acre Or additional fixed cost of returning to the plough I would be about £150/ac worse off

there is a point where frankly I just couldn't be bothered any more / ROI and effort to make a very basic living just not worth it

 

[Spud]

with no sub and the additional fixed costs or lack of cash crop every year on every acre Or additional fixed cost of returning to the plough I would be about £150/ac worse off

there is a point where frankly I just couldn't be bothered any more / ROI and effort to make a very basic living just not worth it

Really? You'd give up that easily?

 

[Simon Chiles]

Really? You'd give up that easily?

Don't be silly, Clive's a smart cookie who would have the brains to find a way around the problem, he's probably negotiating more land to rent in further expansion plans and is just talking the job down to help his cause!

 

[Richard III]

I wouldn't be concerned about subs going, I already farm a fair bit without them anyway and can turn a decent profit. I would be very concerned if I was a tenant farmer at the moment as I think rents are totally unrealistic and unless you have a sympathetic landlord who was willing to take a huge reduction immediately I can foresee a few going to the wall. The irony is that in a few years time the rent will have dropped to a realistic level allowing new farmers and those that have got themselves into a position that can weather storm new opportunities. Personally I think we're in for a few hard years but the future will be better if you can ride it out.

I think the real killer will be when subsidies are gone and the pound eventually strengthens substantially again, it won't stay low for ever. Fortunately this is some way off yet, but I won't bother farming when it does.

 

[Clive]

Really? You'd give up that easily?

£150/ac knocks £300k off the bottom line for a 2000ac farm and also probably puts the price I would need to charge for contract farming to a level that the customer would not be able to accept and still be able to make a profit thats worthwhile taking risk for

its not a case of giving up, its a case of not wanting to run a loss making business

No matter which way you look at it and no matter how good a farmer you are no sub, heavy tillage combinable crop farming does not produce a profit on land that you dont own or have any finance on

 

[mikep]

As has been said before it's entirely possible to make a profit without glyphosate provided you aren't paying an unrealistic rent.

It's been said that Elvis is still alive and working in a chip shop a well. I would find that easier to believe than any arable farmer with grass weeds could just carry on without glyphosate as if it is a minor inconvenience.
And those without a grass problem now how long before they get one.
Any system that 'works' without glyphosate that does not involve heavy user of diesel would involve grass. Put down a few hundred thousand more acres of that and no matter what your loyal client base is most would buy the cheaper but equivalent producing from those offering it at give away prices.
Anything is possible but when I look at the way the problem is being tackled by researchers using diquat and enough pre peri and post emergence chemistry to sink a battle ship then I must admit anyone basing a future on that must be barmy.

 

[Steevo]

Not to mention the environmental impact of suddenly burning gallons of extra diesel by ploughing....is that doing the right thing for the planet? Environmentally friendly?

 

[Honest john]

Serious Question.

With what we are finding out about Gly.
And it's effects on humans & animals why the *** are we still spraying it on food crops.

On a personal note I have used no Gly pre harvest & none on Stubbles.

I intend to still use pre drilling in spring but not in Autumn as will be ploughing in front of planting.

 

[rob1]

so you use lots of grass breaks (you answered your own question !) - as I say totally physically possible but not economically so

I use grass for haylage, but my question was how to kill that grass before drilling anything else. Perhaps a propane burner would work, but thats not good for the soil creatures

 

[Clive]

I use grass for haylage, but my question was how to kill that grass before drilling anything else. Perhaps a propane burner would work, but thats not good for the soil creatures

there are ways being used by some like crimper rollers etc after rye covers, sowing under crops, relay cropping etc etc - but you cant get a cash crop of every acre every year so its just not economic